Job Discussion Forums

[vive_le_rock]

I know they can be shy, but why is some of the classes won't stop chattering and asking questions and in the very next class an entire group of 70 won't utter a single damn thing for nearly two hours? It can't be a 'China' thing otherwise they'd all be like it. Same grade, same range of ability, same lesson, totally different response! What's up with that?

[sheeba]

I find that too sometimes . Strange isn't it . I put it down to the class all agreeing as a group (as they so like to do) about something going on in my class . I think the class mentor(leader or whatever they call him) has a lot of influence on all of the students in that class.I don't let students in that come late and made one cry once in front of everyone . She went on about how she had been to the hospital and was ill and therefore late, so I told her if she was ill she should be at home not in class. Anyway that class were acting differently towards me after that. The mentor in Chinese showed his dissapproval(I don't think he realised I understood what he said) and many of the class followed suit . I now get hold of these mentor students and put them in their place from day one . I've had them call off my lessons without even telling me about it ! That made my blood boil Anyways I wouldn't worry about it - It's amazing how fickle the students can be. You'll soon have them ranting chinglish attrocities your way.

[Roger]

The main problem is that they do not take your lessons seriously since you are not "teaching" but PRACTISING oral ENglish with them. They are not used to that and think it's a weird foreign habit.
If you watch Chinese teachers in action you will soon understand they drill their students but do not communicate with them in English, which they should use in their English classes. All pronunciation exercises are done in chorus, which really is counterproductive.

Forget about meaningful debates; focus on their pronunciation errors or have them memorise and recite (for practice's sake) entire verses or poems.

You can listen to each of them indivvidually by sending the whole class outside the classroom. Or you take one student at a time outside.

[Drizzt]

Actually, I think a lot of it has to do with the chemistry of the class and how well they know each other. Of course a class of 70 will be silent for long periods of time if they aren't working in small groups. They are terrified of losing face, so the best thing is to create a relaxed atmosphere where everyone knows everybody. I know it's easier said than done, but honestly from my experience, the classes which have the best teacher to student and student to student rapport seem to be much more active and paticipatory.

[kev7161]

Also, don't forget, classes are divided up by "levels". In other words, the brightest students will be in Class 1, then not-quite-as-bright-but-sort-of-average students in Class 2, and so on down the line. Class 5 or 6 will be the dimmest bulbs of the lot (sorry, but it's true) and may be rather "shy" in most of their subjects.

However, saying that, a talented teacher should be able to craft their lessons into 2 or 3 different styles (same material, just different ways of presenting it) to appeal to the different kinds of learners. I'm not saying I would be quite so talented, but I'm sure there is a way. You may be able to have a round robin discussion every day with your talkative class, but may have to do dialogues or music sing alongs or pronunciation drills or something with the less talkative ones. THAT could get way boring for them or you, so my advice is to try different things and take note of which activities seem to stimulate them the most. It's an uphill battle and will take a lot of perserverance.

[Mysterious Mark]

[shenyanggerry]

kev7161, FYI at my university usually English Majors class 2 are better than class 1. I asked a Chinese colleague about it and he said that's how it often is.

[minna]

Although I have had one class where the monitor coerced the rest of the class into becoming totally unresponsive, sometimes the kids just don't speak up. I call them dead fish. They have been taught by teachers who stand up in the front of class, lecture with no interaction and then leave; the students aren't expected to say anything because the teacher knows it all. In other classes, I've been argued with volubly--to the class's benefit. I don't teach oral English.

With the rebellious class, I told the dean I refused to teach the entire sophomore year the following semester and then offered up a half-truth and a compromise based on that half-truth. I got my way; the horrible little shits got no class for a semester. I got complaints. Either they were bored or they really enjoyed giving me the worst time. I think I ended up flunking--though it doesn't count for beans--80-90% of that particular class.

You know how it is in China: once in college, you get your degree whether you know anything or not. . .at least in English depts.
minna

[chinaboytian]

I encountered the same thing in China for three years. Some of the more smarter students will speak out, but the shy girls are the worst. Kids are afraid of losing face. Face is a big thing in their culture.

Chinese classroom culture for hundreds of years involved the teacher lecturing and students silent, there was no two-way communication. Students did not ask questions. Only when they get used to foreign teachers do they dare to participate in class and speak out. Plus there is a wife range of English ability. It ranges from those who have almost no listening ability and understand nothing that the teacher says.

[tirelesstravelerasia]

[klaus]

[sheeba]

Klaus . You're the professor aren't you ? The real man !You have no idea about my class and what happened over a period of time with them . This was the class with the monitors trying to take control . I don't let students in that are late . That is my rule. If they are ill I don't want them in my class . Keep your opinions to yourself mate when you don't have a clue regarding the whole picture.

[Roger]

Mr Prof. K. Laus,
I might be willing to share some professional data with you but you come across as some abrasive interloper whose creds we haven't had a chance at seeing yet either...

Meanwhile let me say I have plenty of insights in how the CHinese teachers fail in imparting the basics of English to the students we take over from them at a stage when much hope is already lost for everyone!

[InTime]

To promote the "bees buzzing"
(as poet Alan Ginsburg said about the energy of New York City)
here's a format I've been using this week in my class of 24...but it can work with 48 or more...as long as they can make clusters. If there's no DVD available, likely a tape player is available. There's a great supply of audio tapes w/songs and movie sound tracks, with lyrics/transcipts also available.

I teach 24 classes a week, and it's truly Action Research to see the process unfold, according to different class dynamics.

Here's the process of the class:
*I hand out lyrics of Lennon's IMAGINE
*I say a lyric (often in humorous tone of voice), students repeat
*Then I play the song DVD w/subtitles and we sing along.
*As I'm changing the DVDs, I have the young men and women do a dialogue, from Functions of English, by Leo Jones. It's a dialogue of a young man who sits next to a young lady on the train, and who he initiates and they maintain a conversation...leading up to a date for a movie. Men do the male role, and women do the female role. Very interesting dynamics. There was a healthy competition there.
*Then we practice the phrases from the book: (1)How to start a conversation, and (2)How to make a date.
*Then I show/explain/review the brief (1 minute) movie scene, in which he describes how he became blind...a diving accident, while trying to show off to girls in his school.
*Then I explain we're going to do Pair Role Plays, with people taking turns playing the Blind person--with EYES CLOSED--and the other person being the train/bus/plane passenger. Then I close my eyes and ask them to start the process with the 1st sentence from the dialogue they read earlier.
"Excuse me, is anyone sitting here?"
*Then the class asks me questions, and I tell my story about becoming blind. They learn to make the encouraging phrases and how to ask questions to continue the story.
*Finally, the passenger asks the blind person about liking music...what kind...interested in going to a concert w/some friends...YES...Then...when/where etc.
*Then, from standing in front of the TV set, we move to the chairs in 2 lines facing each other.24 chairs in 2 lines of 12...but it can also be clusted of 6 etc. Always the boys shyly/malely cluster together and then the girls...not shy...but go with the flow. Each partner chooses a role, with the Blind keeping eyes closed. That's one of my roles as I walk arouind, remiding them in a fun sort of manner "Eyes Closed!!!"
*After 5-7 minutes, when the energy is still high, I have them move around in a circle, from seat to seat...until...the boys are facing the girls.
*It's quite interesting to watch the dynamics unfold. It's quite different between M--M/F--F and M--F...there's a SPARK, a natural DYAD of energy between Male and Female which, though subdued in the typical teacher-centered passive-natured note-taking classrooms...this SPARK can/does produce memory-enhancing HORMONES quite invaluable for the learning process.

What about the students who choose not to talk? I don't call attention to them. I let the nature of peer pressure and pure pleasure come into play.

[klaus]

more tosh from the guru. spare us please. that's not the bees you hear buzzing old son.

sheeba, i'm not sure what my gender has to do with this though you are right; i am a man and theres nothing artificial about it.

in fact i can see exactly what's going on in your class. you perceive yourself as having some sort of authority to discipline students when in fact you have none.

if you knew anything about chinese education you would know it is not based on a system of discipline but rather on one of mutual respect between student and teacher - though if you are intent on setting yourself up in a position adversarial to your students then go right ahead. still, it intrigues me why would you waste the precious time of the class by engaging in a useless exercise to chastise a student who was late (the fact that she turned up at all shows that she had some interest in being there) - could it be that this sort of overreaction serves to compensate for deficiencies in other areas?

let me give you a tip. you have no authority to discipline anybody here. you are here by invitation only. if you want to get the best out of the class you should treat such perceived transgressions in a light hearted manner, you should work hard to garner the general respect and cooperation of your students and should in future strenuously avoid what you seem to have done here and that is to allow what you pointlessly and nonsensically perceive as a slight to your personal pride to affect the course of your lesson or indeed your entire term of teaching.

i dont want to fight with you. you can choose to ignore my advice if you like, but i can tell you that classroom management is an extremely important component of teaching and should not be ignored. you should pay just as much attention to the development of behavioural techniques that ensure general class cooperation as you do to other aspects of teaching, and this applies as much in china as anywhere else and perhaps even moreso.

look at roger. he's big on discipline and we are constantly reminded by him how useless and unteachable his students are.

...and roger, i wonder where it is that u perceive me in the role of interloper. is it into your forum? your internet? your china? anyway let me know if i need to apply to you for a visa for any of these please, but as far as my credentials go, i dont think i need to embarrass you by publicising them.