Job Discussion Forums

[Yawarakaijin]

Just curious here. I've been reading alot lately about how ESL is a dead end job here in Japan. How we are over here because we cant "make it" back home.

Now if someone stays at NOVA for like 10 years even I might form a few conclusions about that person but my question is this...

I have a friend in Canada. Works a 9-5 job plus a hell of a lot of OT as a purchaser for a hardwood flooring company. He's been there for 8 years. He actually took the job from me when I first came to Japan for the first time. He worked his ass off, made his way up the ladder. He pulls in about 3,500$ a month BEFORE taxes. No one in Canada would ever consider calling my friend a loser or unambitious.

I'm here in Japan working for a small Canadian owned school. We are pretty unique in that all of us are basically on contract to a large engineering firm here in Japan. Basically, though my boss is the "eikaiwa" owner and not the Japanese company, I make more than my friend in Canada AFTER my taxes are paid. I work a 30 hour week. OT is optional.

So.. are people in Japan teaching English who are not in universities or working for BOE's loosers or unambitious? I know quite a few people who have better lives here than their friends back home and have the advantage of living in another country, and yet somehow there is this idea out there that we are rejects from NA, Aus or New Zealand. I dont get it.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the Japanese/Foreigners who call us rejects or say that we can't make it back home and that's why we are here are simply jealous. They think we make this money just "speaking" English.

Please don't respond with a huge list of costs comparing Japan and Canada and thats why my friend has it better. I pay less rent than my friend. I do not require a car. All my transportation and even my lunches are paid for by my company. Taxes are much less here than in Canada. Yes I know... a steak costs and arm and a leg here I dont have to eat one everyday.

[Hoser]

Well I work for NOVA right now but I have no respect for those people who have been working there for the past 10 or more years. Sure they probably make a pretty decent wage but they've been working for NOVA for over 10 years

[Doglover]

yawarakaijin

what would you be able to do if you didnt have English teaching for a living? (I'm playing devils advocate here)

What would you do if you were suddenly forced to move back to Canada and restart your life there?

[isanity]

Since you ask, I also have a low opinion of "teachers" who can't spell.

[denise]

This field attracts both types--the losers who can't cope back home and the career teachers who see it as a profession, not just as a lark or a way to avoid reality. And there are lots of folks in between, too. And not just in Japan. (The main difference between Japan and the rest of the EFL world is the salary.) I imagine that the losers in this field would be losers back home, too, and the ones who take their teaching jobs (even NOVA) seriously, even if they only stay for a year, would take their jobs back home seriously, also. Becoming an EFL teacher does not make you more or less responsible.

I bristle when I hear people, ESPECIALLY other teachers, badmouthing EFL teachers and jobs, but that's because I'm one of those serious, career-minded teachers.

d

[alexrocks]

I think this is a really interesting topic. I came here intending to just stay a year, but of course that has turned into three, and I don't think I'll be going back anytime soon.

I primarily came here because I couldn't find satisfying or decent-paying work in the States, and I've been paying off debts. I do also happen to like teaching, so it's been a good experience.

However, I don't see myself as a career ESL instructor. I'm wanting to get a Master's in International Relations by correspondence so that I can go into what really interests me, so teaching here is just a step towards achieving that goal.

So as for me, I don't feel like a loser because I'm (gradually) moving towards a greater goal. Furthermore, when I hear from most of my friends what they're doing back home, I'm glad I'm not there.

Final analysis: not a loser, but certainly don't have the ideal career (yet). If I keep teaching ESL for another five years, I might start to feel lame - not because I look down on teaching English (I don't), but because it's not what I want for a career.

[Yawarakaijin]

What would happen if you lost your job back in your country? You would adapt and find a new one right. Anyone who is smart and has a good work ethic will make it work. My employer here doesnt control my visa if I lost my job...well I have more than enough time to get a new one.

No one says to the guy in Canada "what are you gonna do if you loose your factory job?" "Oh you are gonna find a job at another factory..what a looser, you really should have a whole other proffession to fall back on".
I find I tend to meet alot of elitists here in Japan. No one back home would dare confront an electrician who made 3,500 a month call him unambitious and ask him what he was REALLY gonna do when/if he lost his job. No one would say "hey Bob, you've been a plumber for 10 years already, isnt it about time to get a REAL job".

For all the times i've heard that there are no good ESL jobs out there in Japan I have never had a problem finding one.

I would seriously like to know if any posters here would have the balls to walk up to someone back home who was making more than 3,500$ and call them a looser or ask them what they were really gonna do in the future.

[Billy Chaka]

I've worked with people in the United States who make six-figure salaries. They have big houses, nice, expensive cars, 2.5 kids, etc., and they're really boring, uninteresting people. I also know people who make next to nothing who are marathon runners and triathletes. They're fun, interesting people. The big problem with this whole argument is that "winning" and "losing" is equated with money. To be honest, I once thought the same way, but after a few years in corporate America, I'm no longer so naive.

[alexrocks]

As long as you're happy, who cares if someone thinks you're a loser, right?

[seanmcginty]

This is a good topic.

I spent 5 years as a teacher in Japan and often thought about this. I never felt like a "loser" because I really enjoyed my life. The last two years I was there my wife and I ran our own little school, which allowed us a great deal of freedom. I honestly never enjoyed life more, and I think I'll always regard it as the best time of my life.

The guys who spend 10 years working for NOVA or AEON, I think generally they are losers. When I worked at AEON there were a couple of guys who had worked for the company for over 10 years. I met them at company meetings. They just seemed like complete wastes of space.

Teaching English in Japan for 10 years I can totally respect, it can be a rewarding career. But working for one of those mind-numbing corporations for that long in jobs that are really geared towards 24 year olds, I really can't understand that. It just takes a real lack of imagination to pull that off.

Anyway, I'm back in Canada myself now (today is the 1 year anniversary of my return). I'm in Law school. Most of my fellow students are burying themselves in debt to make it through. I saved up enough in my time in Japan that I can pay my own way through without borrowing money or living with my parents. Who is the loser now?

[luckbox]

The reasons why foreigners come to Japan are varied and many, so I think generalizations of any sort are wrong, and reflect more on the person doing the generalizing than the people being generalized.

I gave up a really solid, established, well-paid career in my home country in coming to Japan. I made way more money back home than I did as an ALT. But I discovered as I got into my 30's that having a great material existence and job security wasn't all it was cracked up to be - for me anyway. There had to be more to life. I couldn't stand the thought of getting trapped in a longterm career back home, never having a chance at bigger travel/cultural/life experiences. Japan more than lived up to expectations, so much that I want to return and continue exploring Asia.

Ya, I do alot of complaining about low salaries and dispatch companies in Japan, but in the end, my decision to come to Japan, and my hope to return has very little to with money. Money/salary is merely a means to more important goals in the region.

The other thing ex-pats take a bit for granted is the uniqueness of their situation. In North American, what percentage of North Americans go and live/work in a foreign country for an extended period of time. A minute fraction of a percentage of the population. The status quo reaction to the issue is: gee, there must be something wrong with these people. They must be unable to adapt back home. They must be weird, misfits, etc.... The reaction is understandable from their vantage. It must seem a bit odd to pack up and go live on the other side of the world. But I'll tell ya what... I wouldn't trade any of the experiences gained in Asia for the lost career time back home.

If any of you are back home debating with yourself to make this life move for the first time... go with your instinct and intuition and you'll usually make the right decision.

My 00.04 Yen

[Glenski]

Let's define the losers rather than compare the successful lives that some of us have made for ourselves here.

1. Someone running from the law.
2. Someone who uses his teaching job as a means to sightsee and/or party with no regard for educating his/her students.
3. Some males who come here only to bed women.
4. Many on the JET programme (just look at their comments on www.bigdaikon.com for examples of juvenile mentality).

Other than #4, the same term "loser" might apply to people in their home countries. Teaching has such loose requirements for qualifications that it attracts a lot of "losers" (as well as good people, but we're not focusing on them, remember).

[khmerhit]

[Hoser]

[rai]