Job Discussion Forums

[yesteacher!]

I have a group of MBA, stockbroker types who have very limited English.

Pretty standard story: University grads, excellent knowlegde of grammar, large, inactive vocabulary, total lack of fluency and terrible attitudes.

They challenge very bit of advice I give them like, "Reading aloud can improve your fluency." or "keep a notebook of your new words, use an English dictionary to look them up and make new sentences to practice these new words." Pretty basic, common sense stuff, but I am met with howls of protest from a very vocal, arrogant few and dead silence and nonconcern from the rest.

The sad part is that this group have the brains and the need to learn English, but...Nothing.

Is it me?

[7969]

i've had students come up to me during breaks in class and tell me they either dont like what we're doing, or they think its a waste of time. i ask them to suggest alternatives, and until they do, we will continue with my program. usually they dont but sometimes they do.

just yesterday, a student came up to me during our break. first time i've heard her speak in five or six weeks of this term.... we spoke for five minutes and her english wasnt bad. then she suggested that i speak more in class so that the students can improve their english. sometimes i dont get it...... my english needs no practice, so how they think me speaking more is going to help their oral english is beyond me. but maybe they're just looking for the easy way out and want me to talk forever so they dont have to do anything.

sounds like the very vocal few might be resistant to learning while the rest of the silent ones, who may enjoy your lesson, are afraid to challenge them. maybe you ought to break the class into two groups and see them separately. if they keep it up, and continue to be difficult, i'd pass on seeing them if you can. let them find another teacher.

you're not alone i'm afraid..... 7969

[Roger]

Very few Chinese English students possess EXZCELLENT GRAMMAR SKILLS! That's a myth that should be destroyed! I wish I could talk about grammar to my students! They know "adj" and its CHinese equivalent but they cannot say the word "adjective", and thus won't understand any feedback I might give them.

And a propos READING ALOUD: we had a thread about this many years before. This is not a suggestion we should make to CHinese English learners because they actually grow up doing this from primary school on! To what purpose? IT's bad, fossilising their bad pronunciation and intonation.
They should not read aloud - you can hear such practictioners everywhere including in public buses! -
They should LISTEN to good English and try to emulate it. That they cannot do by reading aloud without even understanding what they are reading.

[vikdk]

[vikdk]

[7969]

[vikdk]

[tirelesstravelerasia]

I'd throw this kind of class into a task-based project of some kind that closely mirrors something they might actually have to do in English -- giving a presentation or negotiating a contract. Give them guidelines and parameters for the project, then have them do it -- presenting, writing out the powerpoint, etc. Everyone has to do some part of it and videotape it if you can.

They should be humbled by their incompetence upon seeing it; now you are the expert, the guy who can transform them from bumbling to sparkling -- using their 'real life' problems as your guide. Most of these guys sound pretty successful, and probably don't like it that they have to take English classes anyway. By putting them in 'real' situations, the lessons should have more meaning to them - and they'll respect your ability to sharpen them up.

It also helps to take charge of this kind of class from the beginning -- do your best Alec Baldwin on day 1, wearing a sharp suit and talking about all the flashy companies you've worked for -- sad, but image is everything in these kinds of classes.

I won't jump in on the 'reading aloud' vs 'listening to the teacher' debate - probably seriously need to take a CELTA if you haven't yet. Couldn't they read aloud alone at home? Or buy a tape for listening? Show them your value in the class, and they'll respect you.

[KarenB]

I concur with TirelessTravelASia (or whatever that name was) on giving the class a group project (closely related to real life needs) to do. I found this to be an extremely successful method when teaching highly educated, intelligent adult learners who are (or will) need English in real life. A few years ago I taught engineers whose company had sent them back for a semester or two of intense English in preparation for either going overseas or working with foreign experts in their jobs.

My experience was that the class worked enthusiastically on their projects, and often injected a lot of humor into their presentations. My role was to circulate around the room as they were preparing, listening and giving suggestions, etc., and then critiquing them after the presentation.

Also, I agree that image is important in teaching professionals. Dress like a professional when you go to teach this class. No unshaven face, flip-flops, t-shirt, and the like. Age and maturity also help. As a 40 year old, I got a lot more respect from my adult learners than my 22 year old colleagues.

I agree with Roger on reading aloud. I would only recommend reading aloud if one was listening to a phrase or sentence on tape (or to the FT reading the phrase/sentence), then repeating that, hopefully mimicking the intonation and pronunciation. That can be done repetively to produce fluency, especially if the FT listens to what is said and corrects it. But simply reading long passages aloud by oneself is probably not helpful. (Perhaps better to get a partner and read dialogs, which would be more natural and real-life -- the give and take).

[vikdk]

[tirelesstravelerasia]

[quote="vikdk"]

[yesteacher!]

[quote="Roger"]Very few Chinese English students possess EXZCELLENT GRAMMAR SKILLS! That's a myth that should be destroyed! I wish I could talk about grammar to my students! They know "adj" and its CHinese equivalent but they cannot say the word "adjective", and thus won't understand any feedback I might give them.


Lets break this down:


Roger says: Very few Chinese English students possess EXZCELLENT GRAMMAR SKILLS!

I totally disagree. Not only with the abnormal spelling, but with the heart of the comment. Chinese students for the most part do have an excellent understanding of grammar, but have exceptional trouble in producing grammatically correct sentences mostly due to L1 interference.

Roger says: I wish I could talk about grammar to my students! They know "adj" and its CHinese equivalent but they cannot say the word "adjective", and thus won't understand any feedback I might give them.


This is your failing, not the students.

In regards, to the other feedback from other posters, I have to admit that my approach may have been incorrect. The idea of more task or project based class work seems to be fitting.

The notion of finding where I add value in this propositon is also fitting.

I think I will give them an activity where they have to make some critical business decision about a related industry or company.

BTW, I have an MBA, but never wear a tie or flip flops. But a tie and flip flops together maybe the wave of the future

[Roger]

[Roger]

[shenyanggerry]

I'll take understandable fluency over perfect accuracy any day. When they reach the level of fluency that they can listen and speak at a normal speed, I'll worry about SVA agreement and correct tense use. I do insist that 'he' is a boy and 'she' is a girl.