|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Is "gaijin" a bad word? |
Yes, you shouldn't use it |
|
51% |
[ 22 ] |
No, it is ok |
|
48% |
[ 21 ] |
|
Total Votes : 43 |
|
Author |
Message |
luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 308 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Nihonjin no kangaekata to chigau yo |
|
|
PAULH wrote: |
luckyloser700 wrote: |
T. Next time you find something distasteful about something a Japanese person does or says, think about your value system as opposed to their's. If there was truly some maliciousness toward foreigners on the part of the Japanese, this wouldn't be such a safe country. |
Their value system which was to set up a snitch website so japanese citizens could snitch on 'suspicious gaijin'. Any Chinese national in Japan is suspected of being a potential criminal. Foreigners chased out of shops becuase they 'look' scary or are not Japanese.
I believe Chrysanthemum was written in 1955 and was supposed to espouse the belief that women should show respect to men and their elders while walking 3 feet behind them. Japanese 'uniqueness' and all that. |
Setting up a snitch website probably wasn't something that was voted on by the people. Sounds like a government activity. I don't know much about that. Some of the anti-terror legislation (snitching and snooping policies) in America isn't too popular with the voting public.
<Any Chinese national in Japan is suspected of being a potential criminal.> Is this an official government policy? Wasn't aware of it.
<I believe Chrysanthemum was written in 1955 and was supposed to espouse the belief that women should show respect to men and their elders while walking 3 feet behind them. Japanese 'uniqueness' and all that> It was written in 1946 and was supposed to reveal a way of thinking that hadn't been considered by most Americans prior to WWII. It answered questions like "Why did the Japanese fight so hard, yet surrender so quickly?" and "What responsibilities does the average Japanese person have regarding his or her family and country?" It's still relevant today even if there are more modern books on the subject. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 308 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
sorry about posting the same reply several times. Won't happen again |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Nihonjin no kangaekata to chigau yo |
|
|
Officially-sponsored "foreigner bashing" increases with Immigration and Police "Illegal Foreigner Snitch Sites"
On February 16, 2004, the Ministry of Justice's Department of Immigration unveiled a website http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/zyouhou/index.html for the public to notify authorities of the whereabouts of foreign "illegal overstayers". While at first glance this measure may seem sensible, further inspection of the site reveals three flaws: 1) There are no clear criteria delineated for what constitutes an "illegal" foreigner, 2) Preset reasons for informing on foreigners include "hatred", "fear", and "no reason at all", and 3) Informants need not give any verifiable details about themselves, alleviating them of the burden of responsibility for their comments. More than a dozen domestic human rights groups, including Amnesty International, decried this site as "racist", "xenophobic", and "discriminatory". After over a thousand complaints, the site was amended at the end of March to remove the preset reasons and tone down the rhetoric. Given that the National Police Agency and related organs of law enforcement are surprisingly unaccountable to public opinion and press scrutiny, and have been shamelessly discriminatory when dealing with issues of internationalization and foreign residents, this backpedaling is quite remarkable--and demonstrates that activism can bring about positive results. The site, however, as of this writing, remains up. Looking forward to a similar site where you can rat on people for more serious crimes, such as drug dealing, domestic violence, child abuse, motorcycle ganging, etc. Not just for being here and causing "public anxiety" by looking foreign. Articles substantiating these events at http://www.debito.org/immigrationsnitchsite.html
Last edited by PAULH on Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 308 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Nihonjin no kangaekata to chigau yo |
|
|
sallycat wrote: |
luckyloser700 wrote: |
If there was truly some maliciousness toward foreigners on the part of the Japanese, this wouldn't be such a safe country. |
see my comment in the "police" thread. |
I'm sure this wasn't maliciousness toward you because you're a gaijin. Besides, I mean relatively safe. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
luckyloser700 wrote: |
sorry about posting the same reply several times. Won't happen again |
You better hope someone doesn't "snitch" on you for double posting
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 301 Location: Zama, Kanagawa
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
PAULH wrote: |
Jazz. You are Canadian, not Chinese. BIG difference. Lots of Asians including Chinese in japan. |
I am Chinese-Canadian . Point taken though. Thanks for clarifying . |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jazz1975 wrote: |
PAULH wrote: |
Jazz. You are Canadian, not Chinese. BIG difference. Lots of Asians including Chinese in japan. |
I am Chinese-Canadian . Point taken though. Thanks for clarifying . |
You have Chinese ancestry are CBC (Canada-born Chinese) but are not a Chinese national. Your first language, as far as i know, is English, not Mandarin. You are more a "banana" gaijin than someone from Heibeng province.
Dont flatter yourself that being Asian will count for much. As soon as you open your mouth people will know you are not Japanese and make judgements accordingly. Chinese nationals won't be teaching English at ECC or GEOS. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 301 Location: Zama, Kanagawa
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
PAULH wrote: |
Jazz1975 wrote: |
PAULH wrote: |
Jazz. You are Canadian, not Chinese. BIG difference. Lots of Asians including Chinese in japan. |
I am Chinese-Canadian . Point taken though. Thanks for clarifying . |
You have Chinese ancestry are CBC (Canada-born Chinese) but are not aChinese national. Your first language 8as far as i know, is English, not Mandarin. You are more a "banana" gaijin than someone from Heibeng province. |
Okay, I better come clean. I am not born in Canada, but I am VERY MUCH Canadian and English is VERY MUCH my first language. I came when I was very young (under 5) and therefore, have been schooled in the English language for well over 12-13 years. And it's Cantonese, not Mandarin for me . This is EXACTLY why I'm nervous about disclosing where I am born on an application form. There is no way to get around it as they require a photocopy of your passport. And lol@"banana" gaijin. Cute . |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Sour Grape
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 241
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Slightly off-topic, but not too much.
About a year ago I was asked to check something for the thrid years' school trip to Nara. They were supposed to interview (in English) any foreigners they saw in the park. I had to check the note that they were to give to the interviewees afterwards. It was something along the lines of:
Dear Foreigner,
Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to Japanese junior high school students. They don't get many chances to practise their English, so we are sure they enjoyed talking to you.
We hope you enjoy your time in Japan,
Name, name and name,
Teachers at xxxx school
I suggested some alterations, one of which was that Dear Foreigner be replaced with Dear Foreign Visitor, which sounded politer to me. The Japanese teachers looked surprised, but they changed it.
Was this pedantic, or does it indeed sound politer? And how could it have been put better? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sour Grape wrote: |
Was this pedantic, or does it indeed sound politer? And how could it have been put better? |
If the note is written in English and they are targetting non-Japanese for questions why is it even necessary to include the word 'foreigner? They are not going to show this to a Japanese person.
Its a bit like going to Australia and say 'dear Aborigine' or Dear Greek Aussie'? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Sour Grape
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 241
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good point. So how could it have been better put? Leaving out the Dear.... completely? That also sounded a bit brusk to me, and Dear Foreign Visitor seemed like the best bet to me. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sour Grape wrote: |
Good point. So how could it have been better put? Leaving out the Dear.... completely? That also sounded a bit brusk to me, and Dear Foreign Visitor seemed like the best bet to me. |
If It were me I would just say Dear Sir or madam
You write a letter asking for a job interview you dont go asking Dear Mr Personnel Manager or Dear Mr Japanese Company owner or Dear Mr Foreign-born company President.
It seems to me to be stating the obvious. Call people what they are used to being called, not by titles or artificial labels.
How abut Dear visitor to Japan (its obvious they dont live here) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Sour Grape
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 241
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Sir or Madam seems a bit stuffy to me for the occasion. The Dear Visitor to Japan sounds good though - if it happens again I'll use that.
Ta for your time. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Like a Rolling Stone

Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 872
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow! Lots of food for thought. I think there are loads of different ideas about this one. The poll says almost 50-50, so we can't draw any conclusions. I thik it is interesting alot of people says "gaijin" is a bad word depending on who you are but I think I shouldn't start saying gaijin to Japanese and then say "don't say it!" to them because maybe I just shouldn't use the word if it makes them uncomfortable. But I think it is strange for none-Japanese to say "gaijin this gaijin that" but some of them say "I bought a new keitai at the combini". Is that ok? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Like a Rolling Stone wrote: |
W I thik it is interesting alot of people says "gaijin" is a bad word depending on who you are but I think I shouldn't start saying gaijin to Japanese and then say "don't say it!" to them because maybe I just shouldn't use the word if it makes them uncomfortable. But I think it is strange for none-Japanese to say "gaijin this gaijin that" but some of them say "I bought a new keitai at the combini". Is that ok? |
The technical word is "code-switching" where you use a word from another language than an English word i.e you mix your metaphors so to speak.
I think this thing becomes a kind of Japan-foreigner pidgin English. People who live here know what a conbini or a keitai is but its Greek to a newbie. How about if I threw in word that most people don't know?
Like "he feels really setsunai"(down in the dumps) ? He was furareta (dumped) by the girlfriend.
But I guess its because 'gaijin' is a very loaded term for many foreigners. it would be like using a racial expletive in the US.
Are foreigners 'outside people' to other foreigners? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|