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Keith_Alan_W
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
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 Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: |
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sidjameson
Why would you come to Japan if you wanted to hang out with Westerners?
Since you've been here for 4 years, I'd safely assume that you can speak Japanese, so why not make Japanese friends?
Maybe the fact that Japan is quite a boreing country is part of the problem you've been having. Ever think of moving someplace more intertresting like Poland? |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Hahahaha Keith and you have been here how long? 2 weeks? You find a job yet, by the way? |
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Keith_Alan_W
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Lots of Jobs.... You want one? I don't. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Keith, that is a very good question. The truth is that I have never had any problems making friends. If I am in a situation where I meet people I never lacked for invites.
But I am very lazy and far from proactive in this regard. Actually I think I must have came accross as lonelier than I actually am. My post was more of a lament than a cry for help. Just wondered if anybody missed the staffroom of a language school. I am actually considering taking a part time job at Berlitz or somewhere just to meet some new people.
The simple truth is that I no longer have a wish to speak in stilted english or japanese. Oh and as to why I don't leave. Well, I would and did indeed plan to at the end of the last acedemic year. The job I was offered though was far to good to turn down. I am no longer in Japan because it is where I really want to be. I don't hate it here, it's just that if I won the lottery tomorrow I don't think that I would stay here much longer. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| Abu, I have got to agree with dbooster here. Let me give you an example. The IT guy at my work is a very nice guy, about 35 years old. We have chatted causally on several occasions and he's always very good about dealing with any computer issues I have. It's not like we only talk about work either. We chat about the weather, current events, a little office gossip, that sort of thing. Today I was shopping in a downtown area in the larger city near my town and I spotted down the street holding hands with his girlfriend (who I don't know). I waved. He kind of gave a little wave back and then crossed the street so as not to actually have to greet me. Does he hate me? Is his girlfriend a secret? NO. |
While I take your point, I find this story even more depressing. In this guy's real life, he doesn't want to know you -- and you DO speak Japanese and he knows it! Let's assume this is not just yet another case of gaijin-aversion and he just doesn't want to connect with anyone at work. OK. Yet another reason not to try to make "buds" with people at the office. Besides, who wants to talk shop all the time?
I suspect the real heart of the matter in my case, is that I'm just not that social in any case, in any country, in any language. I'm not anti-social and most people who meet me see me as outgoing and likeable. Maybe that's just the mask I present to strangers. I don't know. But I'm just real comfortable by myself as well. Like a lot of people who end up as professors, I spend a lot of time "inside my head." I think a lot of long-term expats also are like this (or get like this). |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think I am the same Abu. It is ironic that many, many people think that I am incredibly friendly and outgoing. And I am, yet the truth is in the vast amount of cases I am happy to meet them just the once. It's not that I don't like them, it's just that I don't feel ...........umm...not sure actually. Haha I am well aware that if I end up old and alone then it will be of my own doing.
Hmmm......it's like dating here. We all know the feeling of meeting really lovely ladies, sweet and just nice. Yet as much as we like and respect them there is an underlying truth that it can not go beyond a certain point. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
While I take your point, I find this story even more depressing. In this guy's real life, he doesn't want to know you -- and you DO speak Japanese and he knows it! Let's assume this is not just yet another case of gaijin-aversion and he just doesn't want to connect with anyone at work. OK. |
I don't think he doesn't want to know me. He's a real friendly guy. I am sure if I invited him to something like a BBQ with some friends or whatever, he might come. The point is Japanese people like to draw veeeery distinct lines between various areas in their lives... work. Work friends. Friends. Lovers. Family. Coworkers can become friends. But if you go to the non-work related BBQ you do NOT talk about it the next day at work. He was in the girlfriend sphere when I saw him, and penetrating that just didn't cross his mind.
Honestly I find it very strange too and it took me a long time to get used to people being uncomfortable if they bump into you on the street even if they are your friend, when they would be happy to see you in another context. But I at least have come to understand it. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hahah wow Abu your kids really look Mexican! You sure you're the father?  It must be awesome to see them chattering away in Japanese. Yay linguistic cross culturalism! |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Or maybe really Japanese! I was always amazed at how hard it was to pick them out of a crowd at their Japanese school. The first photo is of my son, Fletcher, at the start of his ichinen chugakko year:
http://homepage.mac.com/dcarroll2/PhotoAlbum75.html
BTW, my daughter is blonde so you can imagine what a sight my family and I made walking through an Omani village! |
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angrysoba
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
Or maybe really Japanese! I was always amazed at how hard it was to pick them out of a crowd at their Japanese school. The first photo is of my son, Fletcher, at the start of his ichinen chugakko year:
http://homepage.mac.com/dcarroll2/PhotoAlbum75.html
BTW, my daughter is blonde so you can imagine what a sight my family and I made walking through an Omani village! |
So his name's Fletcher Fletcher?
Or does AbuFletcher mean Father (of) Fletcher? |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| angrysoba wrote: |
| Or does AbuFletcher mean Father (of) Fletcher? |
A common way of forming nicknames in Arab cultures is to prefix "abu" (father) or "umm" (mother) onto the first name of a child. Commonly this is the first (male) child but in the interest of parental fairness, I've been, in turn, AbuAlia, AbuRyan, and AbuFletcher. Alia says it's her turn again.  Alia, BTW, is an Arabic name -- the female version of Ali or of the 9-L-Y root whose core meaning is "lofty" or "elevated" - it also begins with a consonant (the pharyngeal fricative /9/). We gave her a Spanish middle name. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hahah wow in that sakura pic he looks really European. I guess the many faces of Fletcher.... |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| I don't think he doesn't want to know me. He's a real friendly guy. I am sure if I invited him to something like a BBQ with some friends or whatever, he might come. The point is Japanese people like to draw veeeery distinct lines between various areas in their lives... work. Work friends. Friends. Lovers. Family. Coworkers can become friends. But if you go to the non-work related BBQ you do NOT talk about it the next day at work. He was in the girlfriend sphere when I saw him, and penetrating that just didn't cross his mind. |
But you've been DRINKING with him already. So why aren't you friends? You told us that drinking with Japanese is the only way to really get to know them outside work.
Or did you mean that Japanese colleagues are your friends ONLY while you're drinking with them? Before and after the drinking session, they don't really consider you as part of their lives?
That is VERY sad. And it's a very sad comment on your belief about the value of social drinking. It's an artificial situation leading to artificial -- and momentary -- relationships that take place only in bars. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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You're twisting my words. This guy and I have very different interests and he is almost 15 years older than me. Theres not much reason we would become close friends outside of work. But if, for whatever reason, we clicked, there is no reason we couldn't become friends. I have made friends with other coworkers closer to my age and hang out with them unrelated to work all the time. And unrelated to drinking. But AT FIRST drinking can be a nessecary ice breaker.
The point that you're not getting is that even if we WERE friends he wouldn't have wanted to mix the different parts of his life by chatting with me on the street and introducing me to his girlfriend. It has nothing to do with how well he and I get along or not. I have seen people avoid members of their own family who they live with when they meet them accidentally on the street! It's just a Japanese thing.
And, again, I didn't say drinking was the only way. But it's a really really important part of how social connections are made. It's more about creating a designated socializing time where you can losen up than about the alcohol itself. |
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