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barry3000
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 45
Location: China, Guangdong,Foshan, Da Li
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 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:02 am Post subject: what NOT to do when it goes wrong |
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| a little tip for all you newbies out there about coming here to teach.. if you find it goes wrong then just find another job somewhere and leave... pack you bags and go... there is no point in going to them and saying "I'm going to report you to the PSB" or go to the police with a sob story about not getting a work visa... you know the easiest thing for them to do, the police that is, is fine you and deport you... they will have a hell of a lot of trouble trying to do something against a chinese person with "connections", so they will take the soft option... I know it goes against all the things we learn about honesty and a contract being binding but, hey! they don't care about you as much as you do about them. if this all sounds a bit cynical then read some of the horror stories about teachers here in china and you will know it makes sense. |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Spectacular first post! Bravo  |
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barry3000
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 45
Location: China, Guangdong,Foshan, Da Li
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:15 am Post subject: well here's another |
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look at this article here on a website called english school watch for my reasons... it makes very interesting reading
http://www.englishschoolwatch.org/webboard_detail.php?topic_id=1555
it'a about an American guy who was killed in Guangzhou. I shudder to think I looked at this school last year too |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm not writing this to chalk up any points againsts those I disagree with - but that scho0l gets 3 out of 5 stars on buxiban - I fully appreciate that under Clark's system that this means no good or bad comments have been passed about this school - but we must realy be so careful against about leading people into this market and onto schools like this (even though no person, recruiter or school has been found guilty and all is speculation apart from the death) - being a sceptic and expecting the worse here - at least in my book - is a sensible policy for the China FT.
Resarching a job is vital - but you can so often be mislead when doing this from a distance 
this will be my only post in this thread - no flame trail - I'm gone |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: Re: what NOT to do when it goes wrong |
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| barry3000 wrote: |
| a little tip for all you newbies out there about coming here to teach.. if you find it goes wrong then just find another job somewhere and leave... pack you bags and go... there is no point in going to them and saying "I'm going to report you to the PSB" or go to the police with a sob story about not getting a work visa... |
I think that this is certainly a legitimate way of dealing with such a situation and in some circumstances I agree that it is probably the best thing to do. I am a proponent of raising matters with the provinical FAO as this in my opinion is the only way to actually get results if a school is stonewalling you or acting contrary to the regulations. I do however add the caveat that going to the authorities is not always the best thing to do in every case. With the exception of situations where a teacher is being required to work illegally, I do hope however that teachers would give notice if they have decided to leave and choose not to seek assistance in resolving issues.
| barry3000 wrote: |
| if this all sounds a bit cynical then read some of the horror stories about teachers here in china and you will know it makes sense. |
I see only a tentative relationship between the murder case that has come up in this thread, and teaching in China. The whole case is very unfortunate, and is likely every parents worst nightmare, but it seems to me that the guy could have been in any profession and still met the same fate. It is unclear to me why this case has become one about the EFL industry and the school in question.
Are people suggesting that the school in question murdered the teacher? I don't see that in any of the information that I have read on the subject, but this would help to explain why people may attempt to tar and feather the school with a teachers death. Is that perhaps the take that people who are anti-school have on this case?
It wouldn't surprise me if this teacher was in fact murdered and the authorities decided to classify it as an accident, but there seems to be no evidence nor real motive that links the school to the murder. Perhaps a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time or something else.
It may have been mentioned in those articles but I am curious as to why the guy in question did not either go to the nearest consulate (his own or any other western consulate), a foreign business, or a police station. I understand that it is easy to suggest these things in hindsight but it seems strange to me that someone with no job, no passport, and no money would wander the streets looking for something! Desperate people do desperate things and it seems to me that in the situation he was in that security was something that should have been first of his list of 'to do's'. Am I missing something perhaps? |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| this kind of story makes you think twice before thinking of doing anything that can even be remotely within the realm of possibility of pissing your boss off. definitely sumthin fishy with this story, from the chinese and US consulate angle. |
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Voldermort
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 597
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
| I'm not writing this to chalk up any points againsts those I disagree with - but that scho0l gets 3 out of 5 stars on buxiban |
Every damn school is over rated on that website. Supposedly, with 3 being an average, that only leaves an extra two points obtainable by any school. Not exactly what I would call a rating system.
If a school is to awarded stars they should start from 0, working their way up to 5 depending on the facilities available. Award one for convenience, another for modernised facilities etc... That is what a real star rating system is supposed to be about.
If a school is to be rated by comments from past/present teachers, it should be seperate. start from 0 (and begin at 0) working their way up (possibly to a 10 allowing for easy percentage calculations). If schools obtain bad comments, naturaly decrease this (even into minus figures). This is a lot easier to understand and would prevent schools being over/underated unfairly. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Voldermort wrote: |
| If a school is to be rated by comments from past/present teachers, it should be seperate. start from 0 (and begin at 0) working their way up (possibly to a 10 allowing for easy percentage calculations). If schools obtain bad comments, naturaly decrease this (even into minus figures). This is a lot easier to understand and would prevent schools being over/underated unfairly. |
I personally do not think that a 1-10 system works as people tend to choose 1, 5, or 10. Most people find it difficult to differentiate between 2, 3, 4 or 6, 7, 8.
The current system is a star system so you obviously can't have minus stars. It seems pretty clear to me but I seem to be in the minority - less than average would be less than three stars, better than average would be more than three stars. Pretty damn good would be five green stars, and terrible would be one red star. I don't see how any of this is so difficult to understand. |
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jester
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: Minus stars? |
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| When it's a cloudy night. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Minus stars? |
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| jester wrote: |
| When it's a cloudy night. |
That would be no stars, not minus stars! |
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jester
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Avatar |
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| Oops - avatar too big - will change it. Sorry |
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barry3000
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 45
Location: China, Guangdong,Foshan, Da Li
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| my reason for starting this thread... simply to warn people of the problem they will have if they think in a western way to try to get the authorities to do anything for them... they have a saying here in Guangdong.. it means literally translated water fish but it really means soft touch, we are the soft touch to them they see us as easily cheated... when you go to the shops and don't bargain for the right price we are shui yue or water fish... if we put up with all this crap about no visa snd working for them illegally then we are the mugs, not them for trying it on... see? it's their country they do what they see fit... right or wrong |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| barry3000 wrote: |
| my reason for starting this thread... simply to warn people of the problem they will have if they think in a western way to try to get the authorities to do anything for them... they have a saying here in Guangdong.. it means literally translated water fish but it really means soft touch, we are the soft touch to them they see us as easily cheated... when you go to the shops and don't bargain for the right price we are shui yue or water fish... if we put up with all this crap about no visa snd working for them illegally then we are the mugs, not them for trying it on... see? it's their country they do what they see fit... right or wrong |
Well said! |
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ODIN
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 14
Location: CHINA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: WHAT NOT TO DO WHEN IT GOES WRONG |
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I'm sorry to read about what has happened to a fellow FT no matter were they are from. People seem to be looking at this from just one side. I am in Guangzhou just now and have been for almost 2 years. The school holding the teachers passport is wrong to begin with NO SCHOOL can do that nor a recruiter. Working so many hours and 7 days a week is also out of the question. My main point here is his own consulate would not help and this was a quote from the article
[One of Darren�s parents travelled to China after the burial and went to the U.S. Consulate and asked why they did not help Darren. They informed her, "I was not a party to what happened, but everything was handled according to United States law in an appropriate manner. We don�t help Americans in distress. There are too many of them." ]
Here is also a problem . If people check out schools maybe they should also check what help the consulates offer just incase.
As for hitting at websites for having stars ratings DON'T, Using this FT death to do that is shameful . All sites are different and run in a different manner no 0ne site should be dragged through the mud .
The teachers family have enough to deal with for this one time all FT's should give sympathy to the family and not fight eachother please |
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