Job Discussion Forums

[rigdaddy]

ive been offered a three month teaching post in china - i have an L visa and have asked the school to organise a Z visa for me, however they say that a) there is not enough between now and when i leave (septemebr) to organise a work permit, and b) most teachers work on an L visa and the authorities turn a blind eye.

is this true?

i am sceptical about working on an L visa, and as such i am thinking of applying for another post, one that will organise a Z visa.

does anyone have any experience with a similar situation, and f so what did you do? what are the chinese police and local governemnts like about teaching on an L visa?

many thanks!

rig

[acwilliams]

rigdaddy wrote:

[Voldermort]

A lot of posters here will dispute the facts. It's true that there is enough time to organise a working Z visa between now and September. Truth is though, due to the position only being for 3 months this will never happen.

It is not illegal to work on a business F visa, provided your contract is for less than 6 months and that the school in question is legaly able to hire foreign teachers.

In your situation, you should obtain a business visa either before coming to China, or allow the school to arrange it after arrival. I would advise you first try to do it yourself with the relevent letters from the school. If this fails, enter on a tourist visa and have the school convert it for you.

Before coming, especially if you are worried about the legality of things, have the school send you a copy of their licence to hire foreigners. If they genuinly have one, you will have no problems. If not, then the visa would be obtained illegaly, through the schools guanxi, leaving you open to further problems. In case of the latter, be weary of small time crooks calling themselves a school. Research the school first.

Don't worry to much about all this. For a 3 month spell you are hardly going to be deported, or for that matter have any problems what so ever. Just come over, make friends and have a good time.

[thepreferrednomenclature]

rigdaddy,

What the school is really telling you is that they don't feel it's worth the money and effort to change your L into a Z. In China, they won't tell you this directly because they would lose face and, in their way of thinking, so would you.

Your timeline isn't very clear. You say it is a three month position, but then say you won't be leaving until September. Do you not start until June?

Regardless, many schools don't want to pay the relevant visa fees for a short term contract and this is the normal way of verbalizing that sentiment.

thepref

[Joe C.]

[Roger]

Working on a toruist visa (marked with an 'L') is illegal no matter who says it's not; not even Who Qingdao can or could turn the rules upside down!

Your potential employer is trying to avoid accepting full responsibility for you; he may wish to save a few hundred kuai in registration and medical fee charges. Ask him whether he would hire you legally if you were to work for him for 6 months or a whole year; if he doesn't change his tunes then you know he is a fulltime 24-karat crook!

The onus in the case of an FT discovered by the PSB to be working in China illegally is entirely on the FT, and it's a hefty onus! Yes, the majority of IIs get away with it, but if you don't succeed then you will never care about those who were not caught.

By working illegally, you also expose yourself to further exploitation; your employer can break any oral agreement with you whenever he so desires..., and you would be quite mistaken in believing you could get any redress from law-enforcement agencies..

Only an 'F' oran'Z' visa is acceptable - the former if your employer asks you to apply for one to your Chinese embassy.

[clark.w.griswald]

I have not seen any support in the legislation for the claim that a teacher is working legally if employed on an 'F' visa. To the best of my knowledge the majority of teachers working on 'F' visas are working just as illegally as a teacher on an 'L' visa.

I think that people make too much of the fact that an 'F' visa is good for those who are here for less than six months. While this is certainly true, it is the way that they get paid that becomes more pertinent to the question of legality.

If you are earning an income locally then you are obviously working here. To work here legally you need a work visa otherwise known as a 'Z' visa.

If you are here on business or some other work reason but are not getting paid locally then you qualify for an 'F' visa.

The distinction seems to be money. If you are earning it locally then you need a 'Z' visa. If you being paid outside of China and are here only short term then it seems that an 'F' visa is okay.

In answer to the OP I tend to agree with others that the school has decided that it is not worth the trouble to secure a 'Z' visa and work permit for only three months of work. I think that the OP should expect that if he or she is working here as a teacher, getting paid a wage locallly, and has not been provided with a 'Z' visa then he or she is very likely working illegally.

[Joe C.]

[WordUp]

There's some information I've helped compile about this subject at the link below, includes invitation document samples and a FAQ.

http://journeyeast.org/ChineseVisa/ChineseResidencePermit.asp

Basically Roger got it right on the money, you'd be better off going to China on a 90 - day F visa. Because that is usually the maximum that the Foreign based Chinese consulate will allow for visa duration, alot of schools will not want to endure the complication, hassle and cost of processing Z-Visa invitation formalities.

A Z-Visa is the only visa that you can legally receive a salary on from a Chinese source, however you can technically work in China and get paid so long as the salary is paid by the host organization that is other than a Chinese school or recruiter company. So by Chinese law, you'd be a volunteer though you may have made some arragement of a stipend with the company or organization sending you to China.


cheers
-R

[clark.w.griswald]

[lionheartuk]

Hope this is in the right thread. I'm worried about the my job situation even though I am now receivng plenty of offers. Both my permits expire July 10th so how can I be certain I will be able to take up a job offer and stay in China until September? I have been told by my FAO that the PSB can give me an L Visa but I know I cannot work on that and with the new regulations in some provinces it is difficult to change an L into a Z or whatever they are called now. I don't fancy going to Hong Kong to obtain an F or Z visa especially as I have way too much baggage to accompany me.

[Roger]

[Joe C.]

[Malsol]

Come on guys, take it outside.

[Roger]

No need to take Joecey outside; methinks the lady or man protesteth too little when someone calls him or her a liar.