Job Discussion Forums

[uilleannpiper]

When visiting Indonesia I returned to my old haunt - EF - to pay them a visit. Upon leaving the girls at the front desk gave me a freebie package of an EF backpack and a coffee mug...yeehaaaa. So I'm here back in OZ drinking my coffee from my EF coffee mug while my 11 month old daughter, intrigued by the cartoon people on the side, learns the practical way that touching said cartoon people while mug still contains coffee spells one burnt finger tip.

On the other side of the mug is written - 'How good is your English?' to which I silently reply 'Damn good, trims'. Underneath however is the sentence 'The future will be spoken in English'. Wow! For a split second I actually found myself agreeing. It didn't last long though, my agreeing that is. Instead I thought 'that's not true', at least I hope it's not true.

Having said that....Indonesia, Jakarta, Semarang, Nasi Goreng, Wayang Kulit, going to the beach in leather jacket and jeans....there....just thought I'd better bring the topic back to Indonesia.

[sidjameson]

10 years ago when I worked there, I remember schools and even more so teachers angling for private classes were pushing the "Oh of course everybody will need English in the future. Globalization will mean those that do will become rich. No English means no future" I sprouted it too for a while I believe. Then realised that it was such an exaggeration. 10 years on I can imagine its the same. People in Japan have realised that just having English means nothing. Plenty of good speakers here in crap jobs. English speaking accountants, CEO"s etc, yes they have an advantage, but it's only that, an advantage.

[Zorobabel]

It's an industry and, dare I say, a very good one. 400 million native speakers and yet for the one who is looking for a job teaching English it's not a difficult task. People say English won't mean a lot in the future and that Chinese is coming in force, but when you go to China you can see they're crazy about learning English. Still, I don't think anyone should plan on becoming a career English teacher. It's an easy way to make quick money, but for your own good you should probably make connections while your teaching in order to move on to something else (NGOs, business groups, etc.).

[sidjameson]

Maybe not in Indonesia Zorobabel, but in Japan university teachers earn around $60,000 to $70,000 and more as you get older. A career is doable but you have to plan it.

[Zorobabel]

[gugelhupf]

I really can't see any decline in the desire to learn English in Indonesia as a whole. I believe - and hope - that the 'industry' will mature and that learners will realise that just because someone is a native of an English speaking country doesn't mean they can teach English.

Around 25 years ago the then PM of Malaysia, Mahathir, tried his level best to malay-ise education at all levels in that country. Up until his tenure the standard of English in peninsular Malaysia was generally high. Special committees were even set up to invent new scientific vocabulary in Malay to replace the English words in general use. If any nation in SE Asia could have found a way around learning English it was Malaysia under Mahathir.

He failed, however, and even before he left office the education ministry was buying in foreign expertise in a mad panic to make good the damage already done.

[guruengerish]

I also read a good article about English and Malaysia, but I suspect the reason for introducing Malay at the expense of English was much more subtle than that. The better-educated were often the Chinese, and they had a big advantage in being English speakers in matters of trade etc. It also started coming unstuck when the Malaysians were finding it increasingly difficult to communicate outside their own country, much as Indonesia does.

Dutch is a good example. Very few speak that language outside the Netherlands and Belgium. So, all the kids have to learn other languages, if they wish to trade with the world.

A good reason for a lot of young folk studying English in Asia also has a lot to do with where they want to further their studies. It's almost always an English-speaking country, and most of my older students were studying English for that very reason.

Some of my Business English students had lost some very good trade, as they didn't understand English well enough to reply to a fax or email within 24hrs, and would bring it to class a few days later for an explanation. Singaporeans in particular, will not wait that long.

So, there are some very good reasons for studying English in Asia; true, not many native-speakers will make their fortune, but we all learn a thing or two along the way.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[Zorobabel]

Another aspect of Indonesia's English market is that the urban population is growing 4-5% annually according to UNICEF. From my own experiences, when people move to urban areas they come into contact with modernity and Westernization, and one of the common results is that they want to learn English. You've got urban areas on Java with populations of up to 500,000 people that have almost no modern services, especially not quality English education, and these are cities that are constantly growing. So in Indonesia it's going to take many years to tap even the existing markets, much less their future potential.

[gugelhupf]

[sidjameson]

Zorobabel......that urban centre with a population of 500000 with no modern services is not a market. If a town can't afford a Starbucks then it can't afford one native speaker, let alone a school. Potential?...well everything has potential, but I don't see there being a dramtic change in things for a good few years to come. Although saying that, anybody familiar with Thailand would know that these piss poor towns outside of Bankkok are finally getting a bit of the wealth coming there way. Engliah schools are popping up in the most unlikely of places.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[Zorobabel]

Did you people not realize I am not talking about right now? I'm saying when the current Indonesian markets are saturated (20 years?) new markets will be opened up as the purchasing power spreads in the towns.

[uilleannpiper]

Well, anyway, that a Swedish compay, from a non-English-speaking country (Sweden, where they should be speaking Swedish and should be proud to do so) sells itself on the basis that the future, according to their Swedish-speaking (hopefully) marketing executives, will be spoken in English, appears to me to be a real sell-out.

As for the future of English in Indonesia, the only people who need English really are the business community and even then, much trade occurs within the region where 'Malay' is just as useful if not moreso than English.

[happy_me]

I think the whole thing will come down within the next 2-7 years. Why you ask?
Just look around you prices are up 50% over the last year, housing complexes are every where (next to failed ones too) , to little power, poor water and more people with no new jobs, imports from China every where. So think about it