Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

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[kev7161]

I guess the big question is not "Do these jobs exist?" but rather "How does one find a high-paying job like this?" Right now I make a decent salary, but not decent enough to entice me to stay in China for the next, oh, five years and really stock up my US savings account. I'm like you, WW, I'm always prowling the net looking at stuff, but generally see the same ol' stuff day in and day out.

Korea was a fleeting thought, but I guess I'll stick it out here in Suzhou for "one more year".

*sigh!*

[saint57]

[China.Pete]

I think WW and the posts that follow have kind of asked and answered their own questions. Anyway, here are my thoughts.

1. The world over, at least in the four countries in which I've so far worked, the best jobs are seldom advertised. Those that you see on the internet are simply those that are difficult to fill, have high turnover, etc. Getting a chance to even apply for really good jobs is, therefore, mostly about networking: knowing when one becomes available and who to call about getting it. WW, you seem a bit unusual in this respect, in that you move in the right circles, but haven't yet seen your way back in (patience?).

2. The second big factor, I think, is fluency in Chinese. Nowadays, China needs a lot of different "western" skills - web designers, marketers, lecturers. Many Chinese and western firms are keen to scoop up bilingual westerners who have the needed know-how. The limited ability of many Chinese to communicate in English currently only adds to the advantage to foreigners. This will probably change over time, especially if we do our jobs well and more and more Chinese return from study abroad.

3. Even English instruction, rightly or wrongly, seems overly dependent on explanations in Chinese. English, as it is all too often taught today in China, is not unlike my studying German literature in translation during my undergraduate days (hey, it brought in non-majors!). It provides a brief introduction to western culture without all the hastles of actually learning English. As a result, bilingual English teachers can sometimes command higher pay.

There's an interesting article in Newsweek about the current fad for expats in China ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12634786/site/newsweek/ ). After reading this article, I think Kevin's thought about this phenomenon hardly constituting a long-term career prospect is probably well taken.

[william wallace]

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[7969]

[william wallace]

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[Roger]

IT disappoints me enormously that people here are again confusing high pay with quality of jobs. To me, a "good job" is not necessarily one that pays me more than what I personally need; it satisfies cravings other than pecuinary expectations too -

[vikdk]

[China.Pete]

Maybe the difficulty in finding "good" jobs, even though you speak little Chinese and have only a general credential, has to do with the changing needs of China's economy. Perhaps, a few years ago, any of the relatively few foreigners here lent cache - read, marketing - to a company in China. Naturally, they expected to pay us some approximation of what they imagined we were used to receiving.

Now, perhaps, there is a glut of foreigners who are seemingly willing to work for next to nothing (in pursuit of their dream of finding almost instant riches in China?). Few self-respecting Chinese businessmen will hesitate at an opportunity to undercut one foreigner with another. Could the jobs you mentioned be legacy jobs, where the hiring agency hasn't yet gotten with the new competitive trend or doesn't want the bother of dipping into the fish bowl for fear of getting one of the dead ones?

Incidently, I've been trying to convince Yesteacher on another thread why it may not be in his interest to undercut his training center with an in-company account (even though it could potentially help his own bank account). I think his issue could, in the cumulative effect, connect with the thoughts in this thread. I also like Roger's point about job satisfaction sometimes being more important than salary. I suspect that's the reason many of us, myself included, came to Asia in the first place.

[william wallace]

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[vikdk]

[kev7161]

I agree. Most schools (especially the private ones) in larger cities obviously demand a higher tuition fee and they can afford to pay the FT (and the CT as well) a higher wage. However, these schools should also demand that their FT is a quality teacher and not just someone putting in his time until the next payday. The schools should be responsible for monitoring the teacher during lessons as well as giving positive feedback and constructive criticism. Also, these schools should implement a long-term "Spoken English" plan for their students just like they do for Math, Chinese, Science, etc. You know, an actual curriculum.

If schools were to get serious about ESL/EFL classes and actually had goals set down on where their students' spoken English should be at the end of each school term AND they had the FTs who could help to achieve those goals AND paid a more decent salary . . . then the EFL business here in China wouldn't seem so fly-by-night. I know there are a few schools out there that DO have plans and goals, but from what I read here at Dave's, those are few and far between. I'm lucky enough to have landed at just such a school. Anyone else have a positive review of their school's English department?

[bdawg]

[william wallace]

0712nil