Job Discussion Forums

thrifty · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1665 Location: chip van

When you compare your qualifications and experience as well as your pay and benefits and working hours, do you consider yourself underpaid?

Will. · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 783 Location: London Uk

Well of course.
In comparison to the amount the school/ college/institution/owner gets from the student or in funded situations for the student in respect of the time I teach, most definitely.
In comparison with other people my age with similar or lesser qualifications and not as much experience definitely exploited.
When I compare my consultancy fees with others in the field EFL is again underpaid...or perhaps it is undervalued and we are undervalued as well.
Of course there are some who will say they are earning what they think they are worth. they obviously have no sense of self worth and undervalue themselves perhaps because as new teflers they are really not considering what they do as really 'working'
interesting post...gives me an idea...working on someone else's input

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

I had to choose option 3.
Sure, I'd love to earn a higher salary (who wouldn't?) but I earn three times as much as a local teacher at a job that I enjoy and that I find relatively easy to do. On my salary I can afford to buy a decent house locally, and live a good lifestyle.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

I chose option 3 as well. I'm well-qualified and experienced, so I suppose I could demand higher salaries, but they just don't exist in the countries I've worked in. Even in Japan, where EFL salaries are higher than in much of the world and where I lucked into what might have been one of few remaining good jobs, I earned about as much as I was earning years earlier (like, when I was 21 and fresh out of uni) as a receptionist.

I do quite well here in Peru. If not for my massive, western-sized student loans, I could even afford to live here long-term. I wouldn't want to, but that's a whole 'nother issue...

The salaries that I've seen in the US, my next destination, seem downright insulting for the qualifications that they demand. I was getting $25 per hour part-time while I was in grad school (still working towards the MA), but I've seen many more ads for jobs that pay $15-$18 per hour (part-time, so no benefits!) and require an MA.

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Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

I CHOSE #2 BECAUSE i TEACH CORE BUSINESS COURSES IN CHINA AND I AM PAID WELL FOR WHAT I DO.

Sweetsee · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 2302 Location: ) is everything

Nope.

Girl Scout · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 525 Location: Inbetween worlds

I have to choose #3. I get paid for 11 months and I only work 8. I live in an incredible apt. that is supplied by my uni. I work half as much as I did in TW. I have only spent about 2/3 of my current salary.

In TW, I was paid well above ave., again I had an employer supplied apt. However there, I only spent less then 1/2 of my salary.

I agree with denise. I'm well qualified with experience and publishing. I could demand a higher salary, but there are very few of those jobs available. Also, many of those jobs don't apeal to me. I enjoy what I do. I want to keep it that way.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Yes, when I compare myself to my Japanese counterparts. Not complaining though, it is OK.

cam · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 124 Location: Maine, USA

In comparision to other professions in Western Europe ESL teachers who work at language schools have really poor conditions and low wages. These conditions will not improve as long as there is an endless supply of ESL teachers and travellers willing to come and work in Europe for low wages.

tedkarma · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:07 am Post subject:

It really depends on the country - but it is all relative to the market place, no?

I tend to relate to my wages as to how much I can save/bank - and not how much I can earn. Some places you can make a lot, but the cost living makes sure that very little goes in the bank.

Others, you make a little but the job benefits (free housing, long paid vacations, free airfare, etc.) are so good that you can save a lot of money.

So, I guess it all depends.

In Thailand - not so good. In Taiwan, Saudi, Korea - quite good.

Will. · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 783 Location: London Uk

The ability of locals to live on a wage vastly inferior to my own 'foreign expert' income always amazes me. Local knowledge always comes in handy. Knowing the prices and where to buy for cheaper and being acceptable as a haggler of prices all help to make your money go that little bit further on food, rent etc
How many of us will eat in or near a railway station now?
Of course the same is true of our employers...they know their prices.
Has anyonne haggled with their employer over their wage before accepting a contract.

thrifty · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1665 Location: chip van

The crappy schools here in Turkey often advertise high local salaries and even give a little shopping list with prices- such as bread:12p and tomatoes: 14p a kilo. The newbies swallow this line in their droves and the TEFL daisy chain goes on.

The locals live in a 2 bedroom flat where their family of 10 live happily. They have no passports as they never aspire to foreign travel. They drink cheap tea and eat bread and cheese for breakfast. They buy no books, have no holidays and huddle around a stove in the winter. Of course they can live cheap but can the middle class TEFL adventurer live like that?

Will. · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 783 Location: London Uk

would'nt know where to start would they mate?

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Hmm, in some ways underpaid, but that's because the full time job I want is difficult to get. Underpaid in the sense that we get no bonus, no company contribution to my pension (I'm currently paying into the Japanese pension system, which I may switch over to US benefits) and no copayment on my national health insurance. Okay in the sense that I take a lot more time off than an average company drone (anywhere from 6-8 weeks a year not including national holidays, which gives me another 2 weeks off, though some of my vacation time coincides with some of the national holidays).

So, I guess the qualified answer is no, my pay is okay.

Gregor · Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 842 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

I have to say no, I do not.
Before coming back to the US for an extended visit (as it turns out), I probably would have picked #3. But I see a lot of people with more qualifications than I have working at pretty poor-paying jobs. Even taking the dollar-to-dollar amount and NOT considering the local economy, just dollar for dollar, I make considerably more than, say, minimum wage in Oregon (which is $7.50/hour). In Oregon, you can live on this, full-time. My sister and her husband make more than minimum but less than I make, and they have three kids to support. They struggle, and they are not going to buy a home EVER, but they're doing OK. If they didn't have kids, they'd be doing fine, MAYBE even well enough to buy a home in their community.
As a teacher in San Francisco (doing pretty much the same kind of job I'd been doing for years), I was making a few hundred a month more than my next job...but San Francisco is a BLOODY expensive place to live.
In Oregon, I couldn't find a teaching job. I think I could have, but the pay would have been abysmal. So I looked around at office-type jobs and so on, and I was offered a few jobs paying around $12/hour. This, working full-time, would, again, have come to a few hundred more than I'm fixin' to make in Viet Nam. But, again, it's in Oregon. Taxes are higher, housing is higher. This brings the net down to quite a bit LESS than I'll be making in 'Nam. Same with San Francisco. And we STILL haven't gone into daily expenses. And in all of those jobs, I was looking at more than either my sister or her husband make.
So, again, the answer is no, I do not consider myself underpaid.