Job Discussion Forums

[xian1DoS]

My name�s Richard Hawkins and I�m the Director of Studies here at EF Xian. After reading some of the posts here I feel that I must address some of the mistruths about EF Xi'an laid out here on this forum. I�ve worked here since March 2004 and became DoS in August 2005 so I�ve got excellent knowledge about this school for quite a long period of time for the type of industry we�re all in. First of all I�d like to put right the �facts� that �Distant Relative� has laid out.

In my time here nobody has been fired because student numbers dropped off, the number of teachers employed has almost doubled since I joined so do the maths; it doesn�t add up. Is your friend telling you the truth? To my extensive knowledge only three teachers have lost their jobs and each one was for being very poor at the job. We do all we can to help, support and improve the individuals involved but as anyone doing this job knows, it�s not for everybody. If a teacher loses their job it�s done face-to-face, with all reasons explained in a calm, professional manner and because of the support we offer prior to this it�s not particularly a shock to them. Further more, it�s the DoS who makes this decision and the DoS who carries this out.

Regarding your comments about Michael, he�s not the liaison between the Chinese owner and the DoS so please get your �facts� right before you post comments on the world wide web. I have daily contact with the school manager and any school business or issues are discussed face to face between us. Michael deals with visas and day-to-day administrative tasks, he�s a thoroughly decent guy who tells the truth and is always accessible should you need to talk to him and is very popular with the foreign staff.

You claim to live in Xi�an and have met the teachers here so please ask them yourself. I�m extremely interested to hear about your �personal experience� of him, perhaps you could tell us instead of insinuating things? Regarding �breaking wind without running it by him�, you simply don�t have the inside knowledge to know this do you? This is demonstrated by your incorrect description of his job here. My job is senior to Michael�s, so I don�t have to run anything by him. Also his surname isn�t Garvey; he�s the DoS in Hangzhou! In response to Noel about getting references; anybody can call this school at anytime and speak to the teachers here - we have a happy staff with nothing to hide. As for �Englishgibson�, yet again you find time to join-in any bashing of EF in China with your �exhaustive� knowledge of the company and all other chain schools (Aston, Wall Street). I�d be very interested to know how you know so much about these companies considering how bad you paint them to be. The only way to really know about any company is to work for them, so why not detail your involvement with them for all to see? EF Xi�an is an excellent school to work for, we care about what we do and want to be the best we can be. As for most of the posts on these forums it only takes one or two individuals to taint any school, and of course, some of these will be entirely justified but here in Xi�an we�ve been operating for over five years and have had hundreds of teachers work here and virtually none of them have ever felt the need to warn other people not to come here. The only people doing this are people who hide behind user names and who�ve never actually worked here.

[saint57]

The best part is where he defends his school against numerous allegations, then puts up his e-mail to recruit teachers. MODS, please leave this one up.

[vikdk]

[Voldermort]

I have to admit, when I began to read this post I thought I was on the same level. I can certainly understand from a schools point of view. Like they say it only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel. I agree it only takes 2 or 3 disgruntled backpackers to tarnish the reputation of a school. Here on Daves, it is no longer surprising to see where the majority of these complaints come from.

But why on earth did you have to pull out the e-brochure?

I have had experience with EF in the past. And I will say one thing in their defence, the managment of the school was actually quite good. My classes were regularly assessed, I was given much help, they didn't hold back on the supplies, past and present lesson plans were available to all and the DOS was upfront.

But my dissgruntlment comes from the method they used to dissmiss me. They were unable to secure a visa, which the DOS told me about, but he then went on to inform me to teach the remainder of the day and don't come back. They then withheld that months salary.

Unlike others, I chose not to start a post and slander them. It was pointless to do so. Besides that, of the 6 FT's there, most were happy.

[clark.w.griswald]

I think that it is good to hear the schools side of things and I look forward to a reply from the complainant.

[prof]

[DistantRelative]

Richard,

I'm not gonna play this friggin game with you. I insinuate nothing. The fact is I know both you and Michael and I stand by my statement. Michael's a friggin liar and when you back him as far as I'm concerned it impugns your integrity. As far as who I am? You'll figure it out eventually.
With regards to my knowledge of EF Xian and the teachers I've spoken to? We can start with Jamie and how you threw the bone to him. Now I know your gonna come back and post with some half baked story about how he was a poor teacher so you had to let him go. Rock on I'm not buying it. I'll take his word over yours in a friggin heartbeat. I just spoke with Liam earlier this week (happened to run into him at the supermarket) too. We both know he and the missus aren't re-uping. He had more to say but I'm going to leave it at that. Also had an opportunity to speak by phone with the new DOS at the other school earlier this week. You guys are gonna miss Stuart but Stans a good guy, maybe he can help restore a reputation that is quickly deteriorating.
As many postings have been done on EF's in China I chose to leave Xi'an alone right up until the time someone asked about them, and then I felt an obligation to relate my experience with the school. If you go back and look you'll find I was actually pretty tame in my response to the OP. Now I don't much care whether you agree with or like it. It's my opinion and my experience and I chose to share it. Frankly I think it wasn't all that smart to revisit it.
I'll reiterate, I stand by what I said in my original post about Michael and EF Xi'an. Once you figure out who I am I'm not that difficult to find. I called him a liar once to his face and I have no qualms about doing it again.

Nuff Said !!!!

[DistantRelative]

Be careful Richard. The difference between you and I is I still have copies of the E-Mails Stuart and I sent back and forth. Stuart was well aware when I rolled in to Xi'an last August that I had other job offers. I was honest with him when I said you were at the top of my list but I would be entertaining all offers. Knowing full well I hadn't yet made a decision you guys still chose to meet me at the train station, and put me up in a shared apartment. At the time, in my mind, a big point in your favor. Not that it matters but you got your numbers wrong. You guys screwed around for about 10 days and during that time I got another offer. During the course of the 10 days you did absolutely nothing in the way of securing my services long term. Noone ever set me down at a table and put a contract in front of me. There was never any broken trust. You're right in that there was a problem that developed with the other school so I called and spoke with Michael and asked if you were still interested. Funny Michael at no time said he needed to check with you first. We set up a time for a meeting and I asked him straight out if we would be signing a contract at that meeting. He didn't stutter when he said yes. Frankly I don't care if Michael disputes it or not and I can certainly understand why you would want to accept his version of the conversation. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.
The fact is I have no axe to grind. If I'd had an agenda I might have come here immediately and posted but I didn't, and if the OP hadn't inquired I more than likely would have remained quiet about it. As I said if you go back and look at my post in the other thread you'll find it's actually quite tame. I went so far as to say IMO you were probably one of the better EF franchises. I think you'd have fared better just to let the whole thing die.
What disgusts me about you at this point is that the day we sat in your office you told me you played no part, that someone else had made the decision and you were simply the messenger. Now I hear a totally different story from you.
My advice to you. Next time ink the deal, don't play games with your potential hires, especially when you know they've got other options.

I'll reiterate once again what I said in the original Xi'an EF thread. IMO as far as EF's go Xi'ans probably one of the better ones. That being said I still wouldn't consider working for you. Normally I try and make a point of not burning bridges but in this case I don't care.

[asianbizarre]

Distant:
The integrity of your position radiates through your statement--right on bro; thanks for taking the time to chip in on this thread...

[clark.w.griswald]

[EFXi'an Teacher]

My name is Liam, I'm a teacher at EF1 Xi'an. It seems my name and my partner's has been used in this "debate" about EF Xi'an. First, I'd like to clarify that at no point did we wish or give permission for our names to be mentioned in a thread that criticised the school.
We have been working at EF for nearly a year. Although this is our first year teaching TEFL, I have friends and contacts in many other schools and I can confidently say that the teacher's room and dynamic between the teachers is one of the best. This fantastic atmosphere contributes to a very high teaching standard, one that is nutured by constant professional development and backed-up by excellent access to resources. My partner and I have been provided with a brilliant apartment (two b/rooms, dining room, office, lounge, kitchen and internet access) that is maintained by EF's staff.
We have no wish to get involved in this wider argument, we are only teachers and we don't really know. But we want to strongly refute that we are leaving the school because we are unhappy. We are leaving only for personal financial reasons. We have consistantly stated that in future we would be more than happy to work with EF again.
We will greatly miss all the people, the great social life and excellent work dynamic. EF Xi'an is great place to kick off your teaching career.

Liam

[DistantRelative]

God I hate it when peeps talk out of both sides of their mouths!! Just so everyone knows. Liam and I had a conversation via telephone last night which consisted of him expressing his extreme displeasure with my having mentioned him by name in my post. I apologized to him over the phone for having done so and am now doing it again publicly. Liam, if I brought any heat your way I'm sorry.

I add this caveat. I make a point in life of never saying anything behind anyones back I wouldn't be willing to say to their face later on. Saves me having to back peddle.

I stand by what I've said!!

Zhuhao

[xian1DoS]

Distant Relative, it seems your problem with our school stems from August last year when you came to ‘work’ for us. You arrived in Xi’an on the 19/8/05 two weeks before your contract was due to begin, you were given a shared EF apartment to live in upon arrival. After about 5 days there you informed your flatmate that you had found another job at a university and that you were moving out. You then took all your belongings and left. At no time did you have the courtesy to inform the school of your decision, but obviously it came to my attention. After 3 days away your offer of a job with the university fell through, you yourself told me it was because of some problem with the accommodation they offered. When the offer fell through you then tried to come back to EF. Now any teacher at any school has the right to look for a different job but you were actively seeking alternative employment before you had began to work for us! We felt there had been a breakdown of trust between the school and yourself and took the decision to withdraw the offer of a contract. (a contract which you had not signed incedently) A decision I wholeheartedly stand by and I would do the same again in the same circumstances. I relayed this decision to you face to face in my office with the Administration Manager present. Your problem with him stems from your claim that he said everything would be ok when you tried to come back to EF. He disputes this version of events and I believe him. The decision to withdraw your contract offer was not made by him, (he doesn’t have the authority) it was made by the center manager on my recommendation. During our meeting you admitted to me that you had made a bad decision when you left for the university and understood why we had withdrawn the contract offer.

The simple facts are that you came to Xi’an and tried to play 2 and 3 people off against each other and you got your fingers burnt.

[vikdk]

What we get from this thread - with all due respect DistantRelative - is that subjective contentions about a perticular incident don't help us too much in drawing up a general objective picture of EF as a workplace - but maybe more tangible elements of EF conditions, such as pay and working conditions, can be far more helpful indicators of how this organisations views the the FT.
So remember newbies - EF doesn't just mean confrontations between the bosses and workers being made a public spectacle, but it may also mean long hours (teaching +office+company promotions) for, what many of us would consider, a small amount of money - maybe xian1dos could tell us how many hours (teaching +office+company promotions) and money that involves for somebody starting out as a FT at EF Xian.
I wonder if we'll get an answer or another E-mail addy

[englishgibson]

FINGERS! Let me get back to that on the end of this post.