Job Discussion Forums

[Larry Parnell]

[lollercauster]

I applied for a position at EF in Shanghai. They seem alright to me. Brand new building, using "technology," which in their definition is Power Point. 8,000 is the net pay I think. Monday through Friday.... The other potential is EET, but all language centers seem similar to me.

[vikdk]

If you're on that 40hour package (teaching +office) then that 8,000RMB/month = 50RMB/hour. I only know about Shanghai pay from these forums, but the post I've read indicate that this kind of pay is a smack in the mouth - especially for the experienced teacher.
We have heard in these forums how wage rates seemingly have been pressed down in Beijing - is the same happening in Shanghai

[lollercauster]

Yeah...sounds horrible to me. EET was going to give me 9,000. And yes, 40 hours. I hate to be picky since I do need a job, but that is just wrong. That's a lot of hours for not that much pay. I have a year and a half experience through my colleges, but none in China. So I guess it doesn't count for much? This other guy told me to just lie.

I was preferring one company over the other, but now I don't like either because of the pay. Are these companies you can haggle with? Anyone know? I may not have a choice I guess since I don't have China experience.

Meh.

[Roger]

[lollercauster]

If you like the wages so much Roger, then do you work for them right now? Seems like crap pay to me.

[no_exit]

Oy, Did I ever say that people don't have a right to complain about EF? I just think that some of the things said are a bit misleading, especially when it is mostly heresay and second-hand knowlegde.

For example -- the poor hourly wage. Isn't it a known fact that if you sign a package deal salary contract you're going to make less than if you farm yourself out to different schools part time? The idea is that you have a stable salary and since you're on contract, the jobs aren't going to disappear. As for poor hourly wage in general -- full time teachers would get about 60 an hour base, but they get about 10,000 RMB at the end of the contract, plus paid vacations, sick days, and insurance. Part time teachers at our school get 80-90RMB an hour, which is quite decent for this city. 100 or more an hour is only found through private tutoring in these parts. There are a ton of part time teachers on staff, and what's more, part time teachers also sign a contract, can work up to 12 hours a week, get a visa, and get an end of contract bonus (although no airfare for part timers).

I just don't see how it is such a bad deal. Maybe I've been living in Kunming for too long, but the hours are nowhere near slave labor hours. Maybe the contracts are different at different centers, but 16 teaching hours plus 4 office hours a week seems pretty standard for 5000 a month. No one at our center works 40 hour weeks for 5000RMB a month. Also, working weekends is not unique to EF, any training center will require you to work weekends by default, because the kids are in school on the weekdays. The upside is that your weekdays are practically free.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't bad EF centers out there. I'm sure there are. Mass firings, witholding pay, visa manipulation, those are all things that no one should have to put up with from an employer. It is the other stuff -- the whole tone of evil corporate EF yadda yadda ... low pay ... exploitation ..

My first gig in China was for a public university, a very well known one in this province. I made a whopping 2700 RMB a month and had to do 14 teaching hours plus office hours. Our highest paid teacher, a lady with a master's, was making 3500. I'll take my 20 hours and 4800 a month any day, thanks. And I know it isn't a huge amount, but it is, I'll say it again, as good as it gets in Kunming, and probably some other places too.

My leaving EF has nothing to do with being disgruntled, or going for higher pay, it has to do with the opportunity to go into business for myself here. After 3 years in China, 7 years of studying the language, and a degree in Asian Studies, I feel I should be doing more than working for this school or that school. Got a chance to do something different, and I'm going to take it. I plan on being in China awhile longer, and simply teaching isn't enough for me, I get bored, and need a challenge. Anyhow, that's beside the point, and this has been an epic post. What I'm really trying to get at is that there just seems to be a lot of negativity floating around regarding EF based on heresay. While some centers might deserve it, others don't. There seems be very little that can be said about EF in general in China, very few cold hard undisputable facts that can be applied to all centers. Don't paint them all with the same brush.

[vikdk]

[clark.w.griswald]

Good points no_exit.

At the end of the day it is the individuals right to choose their own terms and conditions of pay. If you don't like what's being offered then go elsewhere. EF, unlike some other schools, is upfront about their expectations which allows one to make an informed decision.

It seems clear to me that some people are certainly over simplifying things to further their ant-EF agenda. The fact is that getting the most money per hour that you can possibly get is not on the top of everyones list of needs when looking for a teaching job - especially people who are new to teaching. Training, curriculum, support, nice facilities, good central locations etc are all very important when choosing a school. Afterall there is no point being the highest paid teacher in your area if you hate to go to work everyday!

[vikdk]

[englishgibson]

OP, what an idea to start a thread like this.

The EF English First franchise has used its brand name, standards and western style education or shall I say teaching techniques to attract foreign employees as well as Chinese customers.
A couple hundred EF centers around the world and 60 in China are to give rather positive perspective with opportunities to foreign recruitees. The standards and teaching techniques are to provide recruitees with a sense of security.
Those expectations often are false and many that become EF employees quickly change their opinions.
EF English First has pushed its brand name to so many countries in the world, got turned down or around in some countries, and got interestingly �adjusted� in some other countries. China is an example of an �adjusted� EF English First franchise�.adjusted brand name, adjusted standards and adjusted western style education.
EF English First Head Office in China �manages� centers in Vietnam, and Indonesia besides its own 60 Chinese centers. It manages those centers in a sense of �bending over� whenever the investors are unhappy. In fact, investors in Indonesia have formed a strong group that keeps on buying the EF brand name and centers and those investors manage it their own way. That very same thing�s been happening in China. Foreign staff members are often under the scrutiny of their employers and EF brand name, standards or western style of education does not mean a thing. Profits on the other hand mean everything to the often dishonest, greedy, unethical and uneducated as well as inexperienced in the business employers.
Some of us have been in varieties of businesses before and may understand the aspects of it as well as how tough it is to be in. However, using a brand name to hide ones own mission or adjust anything possible in it is wrong as well as it�s wrong to �bend over� as the franchiser to accommodate such actions.
Those above issues have resulted in many peoples� misfortunes, disappointments, wasted time or lost money, and in some cases angry confrontations and even fights.
Fellow foreign ESLers, if you wish to support with your forums additions or labor on EF centers� premises such an organization as EF English First is then be my guests, but if you really care and wish to reduce this incompetent organization to minimum then let�s do it.
Would you like your friends or family members one day get screwed over at one of those EFs?

Peace
And
Cheers and beers to us