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[Shan-Shan]

This week I held my final unexams. Students, along with many warm bags of mostly carbon, water and calcium, all took part in the untests designed to give that last class one final push in support of the "communicativeness" of English, a last promotion of that strange concept of language existing as a means for two or more people to interact with another (or even one's self interacting with one's self).

Not unlike many other teachers' classes, my final exam class drew in numbers like ordinary classes don't. But the digits did something truely remarkable. Compared to the original "first class" numbers, the digits grew, grew by about 25. After counting up the grades, I realized that I had attracted new bodies; "students" had spontaneously come into existence thanks to my exam!

Not to sound godlike, but I tremble with the realization of having found the key to life in China: the final exam. Were the country suffering from under-population, I just might be received at 中南海 with the greatest of honours and respect for having discovered how to mulitiply numbers in great batches! Perhaps my dream, like many a Canadians', of being able to stand among the other Canadian Greats in China will be realized. Move over Norman Bethune, I make life! And you, 大山，with your smug expression on the sides of buses and bookshop bags, it's my turn to steal the scene, and be loved, admired, and wanted by all Chinese!!!!

Yet, if this is true, and that my style of final exam allows 23 year old Chinese who once did not exist to exist, could I be blamed for the population problem, and become a hunted individual.? The glee I was just humming to myself has suddenly gone flat.

Fellow FTs be warned, then. My final exam has added to the country's population woes. Lest you happen to stumble upon my deadly formula, and draw more ought to have never been 20 year old Chinese into the realm of being, stop your final exams! Cease! Close your preparation books, dismiss class now if you are reading my message in the middle of an exam. The dangers are too real, and too much for this Great Marxist-Leninist Socialist Society With Chinese Characteristics to absorb!

God, what have I done...

[latefordinner]

It is worthy of note that the new life you have created has come into existence in the shape of 20-23 year old students. Clearly, these new sentiences(1) have never had a childhood. It would appear that you have been creating adults(2) without going through the messy 20 years of childhood and learning. I have reason to believe(3) that the Chinese government has been conducting secret experiments directed towards achieving just this. It may well be that you have, by accident, found that last key ingredient in completing someone else's work. Perhaps you're due for an honorary doctorate from Tsinghua.

1) if we may be so bold as to claim that they are indeed sentient; meaningful testing no doubt is required, and that raises obvious further difficulties
2) or reasonable facsimile thereof
3) I read it on a crank internet site

[kev7161]

Not having taught in a University, I have to question some things (related to this post, which has similar overtones to previous ones). Firstly, is attendance mandatory in Chinese classes? I remember back in my college days if I missed 3 classes without talking to the professor, he could write me out of the class and I'd have to retake it if it was necessary for my degree. It would be up to the professor on whether I'd get a failing grade or just shown as a dropped class. I'd be curious what is the policy with your average (?) Chinese uni.

Secondly, I know it can be daunting with a huge class, but do most FTs take roll, send around a roll sign in sheet, count heads . . . ??? whatever? The OP obviously knew more came to his class than he had on his roster, but why allow not only the extra bodies to take the exam, but the students who had been missing for most of the semester? Is he (and others) mandated that any student that shows up MUST be allowed to take the exam?

I guess what I'm asking/saying is that how much effort do college teachers on this forum put in to ensure their students attend class (or, if not attending, face some sort of consequences). Do you care one way or another? Does your school care one way or another? How does having, say, 50 students one week and 15 students the next affect your lessons you planned?

Any insights the OP or anyone else can provide would be great - - I may end up with a college position one day and it would be interesting to know what is the "common" way of working around a problem like this.

[China.Pete]

"Firstly, is attendance mandatory in Chinese classes?" - Kevin

If we didn't take attendance, few students would bother to attend. Even so, many students may only attend because they can't think of anything better to do. Incidentally, attendance was never taken during either my graduate or undergraduate matriculation. Most of us went to class anyway, because it was nearly impossible to get an "A" or sometimes even a "B" on the exams without having attended the lectures regularly enough to know what was going on in the class. The lack of a mandatory attendance policy assumed that we had the prescience to figure out that correlation on our own.

"Secondly, I know it can be daunting with a huge class, but do most FTs take roll, send around a roll sign in sheet, count heads?" - Kevin

Sign-in sheets only work if you can trust your students. Impirical evidence suggests that they are most effective at guaranteeing at least one student from each dorm room will attend any given class - as opposed to the four who are actually enrolled. I take roll because in smaller classes it helps me to remember their names; in larger classes because it may be the only individual attention the poor tykes receive that day.

"Do you care one way or another? Does your school care one way or another?" - Kevin

I care, or I wouldn't be wasting my time in China working for (relative) chump change. As for the school, they have their policy, which I guess should speak for itself. But are there likely to be any consequences for poor attendance, or for failing the course as a result? Not really. They are typically charged a fee to retake the final exam. Regardless of the result, they will more than likely be allowed to continue matriculating with their more studious classmates next year. Kicking them out, you see, would cost the school too much revenue.

"How does having, say, 50 students one week and 15 students the next affect your lesson (plans)?" - Kevin

You might just as well have asked, "How does having students turn up half-way through the class affect your lesson plans?" Since many students seem oblivious to the fact that their total lack of comprehension of the particular stage of the lesson they've turned up for might have anything to do with what they've missed out on doing during the earlier stages of the lesson, why should it occur to them that regular attendance might be required for the successful completion of a course?

[stil]

Take roll. Give an attendance/partication mark and let everyone take the exam. I rarely went to classes in University as I had to work a lot. I figured that I paid for my right to take the exam.

Of course I wasn't taking any oral classes.

[danielb]

I treat them like adults and never check attendance. During my first degree it was often extremely difficult just to pass even with full attendance even though attendance was never checked. If they choose to not behave like adults or they genuinely have something else to do then it is up to them to make that decision. My students are around 22 years of age. At 22, there would have been nothing more likely to keep me away from class than being told I had to be there. I think one of the problems with university education in China is that the students are treated like children and they behave likewise.

[The_Prodiigy]

[latefordinner]

ChinaPete, well stated. I can only concur.
I stopped taking attendance after the second month of my first term here. I was getting so many lame excuses, and such *beep*-for-brains behaviour from the disinterested few that I told them not to come unless they wanted to learn something.
My exams and assignments aren't worth anything for their final grade, and I'm honest with them about it. Who would I be kidding but myself, otherwise? But I also show them that what I'm doing for them is something none of their Chinese "English teachers" can possibly hope to accomplish. I'm preparing them for the unique challenges of an IELTS &/or TOEFL exam, and of studying at a western university. I have stressed from the first class that IELTS is the only exam that matters, and they can't treat it the way they do the standard Chinese "exams". My assignments and tests are diagnostic, and if they don't do the work I can't help them. For the ones who understand the message and care enough to come and try, I give as much of my own time and energy as I can summon.
That said, I have taken over an "oral English" class for the last semester. I haven't been given any guidelines except to teach oral english, whatever that is. Attendance? I havn't been given class lists either. <shrug> For these classes however there is a final grade, and the exam that I have set is it. My attitude has been the same here. If people come to class, take notes and participate, they'll be well prepared. My exam questions are the same ones that I asked in class, it ain't rocket science. If they want to skip class, sleep in class or whatever, they're free to write the exam just as everyone else does. Lots of luck, because I'm marking for content and fluency, not for one word answers. Laziness provides its own reward.

[Roger]

Sounds a bit preachy to me to hear or to read that I must treat my 22-23-year old students as "adults". Are they "adult"? Yes, they can learn how to drive a car and some are marriageable; but can they make educated decisions? No!
They do not even CHOOSE THEIR subject-matter at university - they get attributed on a first-asked-first-attributed basis. Most study a subject they never identify with. Studying chemistry because that was what the university in their collective wisdom decided the young woman could study doesn't empower them intellectually.
They grow up sullen, passive, demotivated and disinterested - and a cert is just a ticket to a job, any job, where again they will not show any enthusiasm.

I am not in favour of treating them as people under my custody but it's a matter of appearances versus facts. IT's honesty versus deception.

I wouldn't take attendance if I could trust students to take the initative and learn on their own; it's a sad fact that students who are absent from lessons are not likely to make any effort at catching up. They are so inured to being told what they must do that you have to enforce rules.

In our univesity we were given a notice that said students were not allowed to miss any lesson; needless to say this was written by a person with little experience. As a matter of fact, students were under obligation to attend extra courses, experiments and tests that were scheduled on an impromptu basis and inevitably were in collision with our timetables.
Of course, I excused students who attended compulsory lessons that were scheduled late (they never lasted more than one day). I made it clear to my students that they must attend class on another day during the same week; the honest did, the sly did not.
I felt sufficiently relieved at the end of the term that some ten percent or so of students no longer counted as regular students in my classes - so many fewer to examine. Classes were overenrolled anyway - at 50 persons a class, so when a class was down to 45 or 42 I got a little breathing space.

[latefordinner]

Ahh Roger, thought you might weigh in on this one. Welcome to the discussion, and thanks for providing and counterbalancing point of view. Though we may disagree on some things, I'm glad to hear from you.

[Shan-Shan]

Myself, I did take attendance for a period of time for this semester's 80 plus students classes. The task was accomplished by having students "sign in" while they were filing out at the end of the lesson. I quickly realized that this method would not work as university students are quite dishonest. How 66 people, a number counted at the start of class, managed to have 83 names was not a problem that kept me awake at night for long.

For the next few weeks, I would count the students at the end of class, write a list of numbers on a paper, and have students write their names beside a number. I ceased doing this because I felt foolish. Like many posters on this thread have already indicated, these are university students! If their sole motivation for attending class is just to get some attendance points based on a signature, I really don't want to see them. Some numbskulls even went so far as to believe that attending the final five minutes of my class constituted attendance. After attendace ceased, they ceased coming which did not bother me in the slightest (it only kept the continuity of my lesson in better shape)

Kev., you shouldn't transplant North American or European university experiences/policies/justifications for existing on to their Chinese counterparts. The two may be the same in name, and have exchanges, but that's where the similarity ends.

There were no mandates about the exam: as I wrote on another thread, the exam was an unexam, a carrot to get the jackasses into the classroom. I felt that since many had come to the exam who apparently never even attended the first class itself, they could at least use the time to do my coopearative, student centered and assessed exam, and perhaps learn something. I didn't lose any time evaluating absolute strangers.

I do care whether or not students come -- I only hope that this caring persists because there can be many potholes along the way to knock out one's will. Were I not to, I wouldn't have felt so bad when numbers were low, and the amount of time and preparation I put into my interactive, multimedia lessons seemed like a waste. Oddly enough, the "teachers" classes I had were always full (unless a meeting/preparation for a meeting interfered). Those teachers all expressed an interest in and appreciation for my classes, so I really feel that I can't blame myself for low student turn out when their teachers always attended class.

The fact that students will learn something should be motivation enough to attend. To try to ensure this, I always ask myself at the end of each lesson: "Were I my student, what could I tell someone what it was that I learned and did today in Mr. Shan Shan's class?" If I can't answer the question, I've failed at my job.

Different schools have different views of FT's English classes. Requirements, strictness over attendance, test/no test varies depending on where one is. Last semester's First Year computer science students were required to take a mid-term and final in my class; this semester's third year students were not required to do anything of the sort (though I fibbed and told them they had to knowing the colossal beating attendance would take otherwise). Mind you, last semester's classes only had 30 students each, making attendance and testing much more manageable.

[danielb]

Which part was preachy Roger? The fact is that most of my students turn up for class and a large number of them appreciate the fact that I speak to them like adults. If you want, you could lower yourself enough to try it yourself. I'm not telling you to, as that might be considered preaching.

So if we take an elderly person and put them into an aged care institution where they have no choice as to meals, where they sleep etc., should we treat that person as a child as well?

[mondrian]

Over a long period of teaching in several countries I have now got a strategy for dealing with the attendance issue.
My first port of call is to ask the Dean/top guy:
1. What is their official policy for my class?
2. Are there any examination implications based on attendance?
3. Is there a mark/grade for class participation?
4. What is their policy for: sleeping in class; SMS/mobile phone conversation in class; doing other course work: talking in Chinese?
5. Are the students aware of the answers to questions 1-4?

If, as in one past example, the Dean tells me not to concern myself about class attendance because that is already being dealt with by the monitor, I want the evidence provided by the monitor. If I count half the class present and yet 100% recorded by the monitor, then it is back to the Dean. Without his/her back-up I have no power in the classroom. I am just a performing monkey for their educational system. So I will take and eat my "banana" with as little effort as possible.
The students get what the system wants to provide them with. I have found that you cannot treat the 20 year Chinese student as you would a Western student. They have not had the training to cope with independance of thought, word or deed.
If I am allowed I tell the non-participants in class to go away; sleep in their garret or Net bar then I do so; otherwise they sit at the back and be non-disruptive.
I have tried many other ways, including constant badgering to get at least half of them to actually bring a book, a pen/pencil and a piece of paper. It just makes more work for me and does nothing to improve their performance or increase their interest.
BUT if a class wants to learn, then my "sun" comes out and fills the classroom with intellectual light. That is what happened with my English majors this semester, using the SAME material as for all the other classes. Their examination results confirmed that they had improved as I expected them to and they are now ready to go on next semester having a 100% success rate with another teacher.