Job Discussion Forums

[Malsol]

A really great business English textbook was rejected by a Beijing publisher with the following comment " This book is excellent but we do not believe that Chinese teachers could learn how to use it."

[no_exit]

[englishgibson]

No_exit, that's “untrue for the EF centers that I worked in”!
One that I worked for popularity was secondary to the ego of the center’s Center Manager. My lovely students didn’t matter, when I got paid less than my EF contract outlined. I scooted and amazingly was approved to the Director of Studies position at another EF center right after and that approval went all by the EF Head Office.
I was quite popular with my students at another EF center and I was the Director of Studies there. Many students wanted me to teach them on after the course finished. However, the employer saw some kinda evil in me, since I didn’t go with lies and send correct reports to EF Head Office in Shanghai. Further more, my employer’s ego was damaged when I threw in an enquiry into my tardy flight reimbursement. It was my second year with that EF center. Well, I got fired and those students were told I left town, even though I didn’t. When I met some of them later, it got sooo interesting.


A rather reasonable Beijing publisher, Malsol.

[Shan-Shan]

The competition among ESL schools where I am is starting to get rather nasty. There's one institute constantly advertising: they've plastered every single newspaper stand in the city with either their "3 Witches of the Blasted Heath" photo, or a group photo of the creepiest FTs in all the land of China. Some of the headlines they use indirectly slam the competition's supposed ineptitude at test preparation classes. My response would be that if their school is the only sure place to learn English, why do they feel that everyone in the city must see their image everytime a magazine or bottle of sacchrine enhanced green tea is purchased? Wouldn't word of mouth be sufficient?

Another school, much newer than the one mentioned above, now assists passengers to prepare for the next stop. The school is called "Enjoyed English" (now that's not "Enjoy" but "Enjoyed", perhaps implying that those who once enjoyed English, but fell afoul with the language, can now rekindle their previous romance via this new school). So every time one rides the 809, it's "Learn English, Learn English well. Enjoyed English reminds you (enter stop name) has arrived".

I've only ever seen two EF advertisements here, both quite innocuous and unimposing.

[no_exit]

[englishgibson]

Respectfully, while you �may have had an experience� wherein some trolling took a precedent over the �bottom line�. If anyone here is for a �personal vendetta� then what are you here on this discussion for?

Sorry No_exit, I�ve just been trying to stick to the topic, which seems to be rather uneasy on this forum. If Malsol generalized on his quote, then your generalizing is absolutely justified right there.
And yes, Shan-Shan is right about the competition. However, back and again trying to stick to the topic of OP, we/Shan-Shan are getting a bit away again.
�The bottom line� here is that forum readers, newcomers to China become aware of what could happen to them at particular schools, centers or franchises, which in this case is EF English First, isn't it
Generalizing when the topic is given kind of takes it away, doesn�t it?


By the way Shan-Shan, I must admit you�ve got me with that �ENJOY(ED) ENGLISH� story there above. There�s a language center called �Enjoy English�, which is a CLONE of one EF center�s owner. What a coincidence that you�ve mentioned it.

Be aware that there are a few EF CLONES operating in China. Be aware that you could be signing in for one EF center and later asked "nicely" to move to another...."CLONE"...by the same employer

Peace
and
cheers and beers

[vikdk]

dont worry folk we should be believe in no_exit - after all kunming is such a typical place to guage the chinese ESL industry from - you know in Kunming if they aint happy with a mill they have at least a 1000 others to choose from

[Gregor]

I don't really see the point in arguing about a particular school. EF takes a lot of crap, but if the school is well run and treats the teachers well (two things well within my scope of influence as a director of studies), the teachers want to stay, and they choose to stick with EF rather than a different job.
If you don't agree that the benefits to working for EF are good, then by all means don't sign the contract. No skin off MY nose, even back when I was an EF DoS (and I will likely be one again - I liked the job).
I'm not advertising, whether you believe that or not. Obviously, the mods for this forum can recognize that. Hell, I don't even WORK for EF right now.
But my experience with them is the same as my experience with the French - very positive. Both are under-rated and undeserving of the bad reputation they somehow managed to get. There are bad French people, and there are bad EFs. But in my experience, if you GIVE good, you GET good.
And I want to defend both.
The French, even in Paris, were very helpful to and sympathetic with me.
And EF has always been a good, steady source of income, and the medical insurance actually paid for surgery for me, and I have never had any trouble with them (except once, trying to get paid, but that was EF Corporate, in the US, so it doesn't matter here).
If you disagree, that's fine. I only know my life. But in my own life, I have learned this - when I'm dealt with poorly, I can see at LEAST half of the trouble in the mirror.

As far as dealing with the daily grind, I like what Shan-Shan had to say a few posts back. Get rid of the "F" and the "C" and let's just all be teachers.
Employers (both government and private) don't want that, because it's to their benefit that the two - FT and CT - remain distinct. But it has been my experience that CTs are often receptive to the influence of FTs, if the FT in question is a professional. Both could learn a lot from the other.
That attitude has caused me problems in the past. FTs and CTs in my school get together and both groups (now one, at least as far as the teachers themselves were concerned) take offense at the difference in pay scale.
I've lost teachers over it - the CTs wanting more money, or the FTs getting all solidaritous (forgive my coinage) with the CTs.
But even that is a rare occurrence - the FTs want to keep their cushy jobs, and the CTs are aware that they are being paid a competitive salary in a VERY competitive market.

What is interesting about this thread is the posts that deal with teaching experiences in general. Even the attacks on EF are interesting, if you replace references to EF with ESL in China, generally.

A lot of you don't remember (or else never knew) what it was like to live, maybe even teach, in your own countries. Most of the complaints you have about China are really about anywhere. And many of them (MOST of them?) are unrealistic. For example, education coming before profit. Oh, it's a legitimate gripe. But EF is certainly not the only culprit here, nor is China the only (or even worst) place to find examples of it.

The only real problem I have had with working for EF - or any other company I have ever worked for as a teacher (or printer or mortician) is that they all cater to the well-to-do. This is unfortunate. But I have my own priorities. If I were single now, I might consider dedicating my life to helping others at my own expense. I have never done a lot of that before, but it wouldn't be totally out of character.
But I'm married now, and my wife's happiness comes second only to my whole family's well-being. So I need to make a decent salary, and there we are - working for a company whose clients are wealthy (relatively speaking).
I'd be delighted no end if a company would pay me a livable salary to teach the underprivileged. But in those volunteer programs, the volunteer almost always have to pay for the privilege. Forget about a salary entirely. If a company would offer a decent, but even far-below private or government sector pay to teach people who couldn't afford it but would truly benefit from English teaching, I'd JUMP at the job.
Maybe.
I like my salary, I have to admit.

[no_exit]

[englishgibson]

Hey Gregor. Nice to read your stuff again. The EF (I suppose Erica Insurance) actually paid for your surgery there. How nice. You�ve paid deductibles, didn�cha? Speaking of Insurance, Erica is the EF standard one, isn�t it? Well, the EF centers I worked for had their �practices� not to sign in their teachers to the EF Head Office for that Insurance policy. Guess why? Well, one of my employers once made a lame excuse for it after I argued from my Director of Studies position WHY. In any case, the EF employers I worked for had always only few teachers on their list for the EF Head Office and few others worked without the knowledge of the EF Head Office. GUESS WHY, GREGOR?

You aren�t advertising, and you aren�t working for any EF center as you say now. Haven�t you been involved in the EF Directors of Studies website that recruits/advertises for EF centers in China?
Now, this is unrelated (at least I hope so) but my former EF employer paid cash to her former Director of Studies for recruiting. I found out when I was that EF employer�s Director of Studies myself and I found out about that the hard way, since my predecessor there had been passing on my name cards around North America. The EF Boston USA office filed a complaint against me then. Too bad I knew nothing about that recruiting scheme.
EF English First is one hell of a desperate organization with its EF centers out of control.

[englishgibson]

[Paul Barufaldi]

These schools are so focused on the bottom line that they often miss out on it. With a minimum of investment and organization -and a little heart, they could crank out some fantastic programs. Problem is, the poeple in positions of authority don't really care about quality, just passing the buck and collecting their dough. They go back forth all the time talking about is it a school or is it a business, calling the students "customers" and all this foolishness. They get so caught up in the marketing and money, they forget about teaching anyone English. (IOW more thought and energy go into the marketing than than the actual programs -which are often treated like an afterthought) So the quality of education just depends on sh*t luck, whatever quality of FTs they happen to dredge up. The programs themselves are generally knee jerk, spin marketed nonesense -and the FTs just have to do their best trying to make progress with the students in spite of it all.

[vikdk]

[william wallace]

Economics- First
Mandarin- Second
Social mores- Third
Foreign languages(English too)-Fourth

[clark.w.griswald]