Job Discussion Forums

[Gorm]

I've just been offered positions at 2 universities and one college. I was also offered a position at a middle school in Hangzhou.

My destination choices include:

Nanjing
Wenzhou
Xianning
Hangzhou

Should I be wary of universities? How do they differ from other ed institutions in China? The contracts seem legit/good and I've read some positive feedback about 2 of them on a few sites (no negative feedback) and have been given E-mails of teachers, but haven't heard back from any of them (it's only been 8hrs since I've emailed them though).

Also, has anyone taught at Xianning College? I can't find anything on it...in the meantime I'll wait and see what the other teachers have to say about it.

What about the locations? I assume Nanjing is the best place for a 20s guy, but I really don't know much about the other cities besides what I could gleam from Internet sources (not much).

[Gorm]

...

[tw]

[Super Mario]

Generally speaking, they present short hours [12-16] a week, relatively low pay [4-8 k], housing on campus, unshared and utilities supplied and a mix of students ranging from enthusiastic to turned-off, but passive [sleep, play games on their "translators"]. They tend to pay on time and meet their contractual obligations, though there have been many exceptions.
Teaching in China? Caveat emptor.

[chengdude]

It's going to be hard to generate much response when speaking in such generalities...perhaps if you gave a few more details about the jobs? Nanjing is an all-right place, but which university is it? Are you sure you'll be working in Nanjing and not be shuttling back and forth between your apartment/dorm in the city and a suburban campus for undergraduates?

Hangzhou can be a nice place to work as well; it just depends.

If I allow my imagination to run wild with everything that a "20s guy" would be looking for in China, I'd definitely skip Wenzhou and Xianning.

[no_exit]

The only real problems you'll find with university teaching are the pay and the students.

The pay is lower, but it depends on the city. If you have to teach composition classes, you'll be in for a lot of outside of class work, so check on what classes you'll have to teach first and keep in mind that universities may have low teaching hours, but you'll have to do grading and such, which does add up.

The students can be frustrating. They cheat like mad, first of all, and while every class has a few motivated hardworkers, you'll find that the majority of university students are fairly lazy and are not used to being pushed by their teachers. You no doubt be confronted with at least a couple students in each class who do absolutely nothing all semester and still expect to pass. You'll try and introduce interesting topics and get them excited about learning, but you'll still be met with apathy. You may find this negative, but look through the multiple threads that have appeared on this board about teaching college students and trust me, although it may be a gross generalization, it tends to be true for most.

There are some advantages though. It is legal work. You'll get paid on-time and you'll get what's promised for the most part. You may have to deal with an idiot of a FAO, but he usually won't outright screw you over. You won't have to deal with classes that are completely out of control, as you would have to with children's classes (sleeping in class and cell phones are nothing compared to kids' running around, screaming, throwing things, ...!).

My first job in China was with a university and I found it was a good start. You have a decent choice of cities. I'd go with Nanjing or Hangzhou, because you'll find that there are other foreigners, which is a good thing when you're starting out, there will be some kind of nightlife, which as a young guy you'll probably want (if you want to date it will be better to try in a big city, where you're less likely to encounter ultra-conservative types), and while both places are nice, big cities, they are not ultra-expensive compared to the rest of China (unlike say, Beijing or Shanghai).

Anyhow, good luck!

[Calories]

middle school will make for the easiest job ever if that's teaching middle school oral english hahaha

[Roger]

I would have to contradict calorie's opinion!
Why would you be so wary of universities? If you are wary of instiutions of learning, then middle schools deserve the most wariness! Chinese schools are cram schools, and at midle school level you as an FT simply don't fit in! Classes tend to have in excess of 50 students, and what motivation could you expect from learners under such circumstances?
Cheating is even more rife here than it is at universities - because the decision whether these young folks get a higher education or not depends on the outcome in exams!

[frank d]

Hi! I've been living and teaching in Nanjing for the past three years. Basically, I agree with most of what the other posters have said. If you're a 20s-guy, yes, you'll meet many others here like you (at popular local watering holes). (I'm a tired, old 50s fart and rarely go out at night!)

Yes, the hours are less than training schools, but oh God, so are the salaries. I was recently looking for new work, and while in my heart I think univerity teaching is better for me than training schools (and other private, for-profit situations), the salaries are ridiculously low here, and I ultimately passed on all recent offers.

When I first came to China in 2003, I taught for a small college in Nantong for 4500RMB per month. Now after three years' teaching experience in China (and several years' previous experience in America -- plus two masters degrees -- and very high ratings from students), I was very recently being offered 3600-4200RMB for university teaching in Nanjing.

Ask LOTS of questions about the contracts. The elements that are vague can bite you in the ass later...

Yes, they will ask you to teach, on average, 12-16 hours per week, but they will likely expect you to conduct at least one, open English Corner per week, do some teacher training for Chinese instructors, perhaps supervise master's theses and dissertations (correcting and teaching better English writing skills to graduate students), and offer some special cultural lectures and presentations (all for the basic 3500-4500RMB salary). Personally, I wouldn't do it.

Oh and yes, as other posters had warned, it will not be unusual for the university to expect you to shuttle back and forth between two or three different campuses for teaching (and your travel time is not considered as working time!). It is these kinds of surprises that are not spelled out in the contract.

However, Nanjing is great city. Lots to do, but severely hot in the summer months. You'll make lots of wonderful friends here (Chinese and foreign).

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the many good things China has to offer.

As I always say, I LOVE teaching in China, but I HATE working in China...

[poopsicola]

There's something I don't understand. A poster recently wrote about Chinese Middle Schools:

[quote]Chinese schools are cram schools, and at midle school level you as an FT simply don't fit in! Classes tend to have in excess of 50 students, and what motivation could you expect from learners under such circumstances?

[b]Cheating is even more rife here than it is at universities - because the decision whether these young folks get a higher education or not depends on the outcome in exams![/b][/quote]

I had always thought that whether a student got into a university in China or not depended on their mark in a National Exam. I have always been told that this exam is so tightly supervised and controlled that it is virtually impossible to cheat and that those few who attempt it must use absolutely extraordinary measures to do so and, it seems, are routinely caught where it occurs.

If the near-impossibility of cheating in this national exam is true, then the statement that cheating in Middle School is rife as a result of attempts by students to cheat their way into universities must be wrong. Conversely, if what the poster says is correct and if cheating is rife in the national examination, then someone has grossly misinformed me.

Does anyone know if cheating is rife in the national exam that I have heard so much about on TV in the past month or so?

[vikdk]

It's very difficult to cheat in this exam - but a lot of cheating still goes on - the most effective way by students and teachers working together - money can close eyes and inflate marks

[poopsicola]

But how can that happen if students are randomly assigned to exam rooms by a central computer and if supervisors are randomly paired from different schools and are randomly assigned to exam rooms in exam centres by that computer? And how can students cheat when exam answer sheets of adjacent candidates are different in layout, when students are scanned by metal detectors before entering the exam room, when exam papers remain sealed until they are opened in the exam room only 5 minutes prior to the commencement of writing and where the whole exam area is off-limits to all but supervisors and parties of randomly assigned invigilators from agencies outside the school centre.

When I am told that cheating is virtually impossible, I cannot see how it can be rife under the circumstances.

I can imagine that money might cause results to be manipulated in the central office computer but should a result be radically different from what is anticipated, I have no doubt that news of the peculiarity would soon become public knowledge. I just don't hear this sort of thing being said.

If cheating is rife, are specific examples public knowledge or is it just an urban myth that cheating is rife with no evidence to back up such claims?

[Shan-Shan]

Should it be true that no one actually cheats on their National Exams, the cheating that then occurs in middle school is just a hush-hush pseudo-class on how to cheat on university exams. If so, I must say that I support its student centeredness, and stimulation of an otherwise flaccid student creativity.

The cheat notes I've come across in empty classrooms are works of art, much better examples of human ingenuity than anything the Chinese teachers can muster. Were the tests I administer "cheatable", I would probably encourage a little underhandness just to promote independent thinking.

[Yu]

Hangzhou is a place to go for relaxing. It is one of the more beautiful cities in China. Great tea houses and West Lake. I dont know anyone who doesnt like Hangzhou.
Nanjing can be really hot.

[prof]