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[redderpesh]

Hi everyone,

This has been mentioned in another thread but I bring it up because the general feeling was kind of unnerving... some felt that friendships in Mexico were superficial, or hard to come by...

Did you make friends? find lovers? (Clearly some have!) and how involved were you in speaking the language?

I think it's human nature that deep friendships occur rarely, whether between people speaking a common native tongue or otherwise. I can't expect Mexican "friendliness" to somehow surpass that of the cynical norte.

A big reason for me to teach English in Mexico is because I think it's an enjoyable, fulfilling way to pay the bills -- which lets me live in a place to perfect my Spanish, a place where I'll make friends with Spanish speakers and learn a little about people.

Maybe I'm answering my own question here -- but I'd like to hear about your experiences making friends, or trying and failing, or finding love, or what not. To what extent could you break down the language barrier? How many have gained a deep fluency in Spanish? Do you think it's easier to make friends in a quieter place or somewhere hip and energetic like DF?

[ls650]

I used to disagree with M@tt and others that friendships in Mexico are superficial, but now I'm not so sure. I don't think it's so much a language barrier so much as a cultural barrier. Family trumps friendship in Mexico, and no matter how close you might think you are to someone here, you will never be equal to family.

I think what bothers me more is the fleetingness of friendships with fellow TEFLers. You can seem to be the best of pals with a co-worker, and then when that person leaves, the friendship dissolves. An example: I wrote an email to someone I shared an office with for over a year, and asked her how her new school is going. The reply I got back was "I'm too busy to write much now, so I'll call you when I go back to grad school in September." What, you can't find time to write an email in three months? So much for that friendship, I guess.

Sorry, off on a tangent there from your original question....

I don't think location or language ability matters so much: you'll either be friends or not.

[ontoit]

Friendships develop because of shared interests and during shared time. When interests or locations shift, so do the friendships, no?

[ls650]

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Endie]

Not necessarily a valid excuse, but i think sometimes us foreigners (esp. ESL teachers) may have difficulties in forming true friendships is also to do with the fact that many TEFLers are seen as transitory or temporary. One year you could be here, another year you could be gone.

So it may be hard for them to fully commit to you.

But most of you have brought up points. Family is important and will obviously supercede anything else. And yes, it is cultural. I have many friends here, but few will really go out on a limb to really help you out. I mean, to hang out with, talk, and help you for small things, they will certainly do. But for long-term things such as being an aval (or guarantor), stuff like that, they are quite reluctant to help. Whereas where I�m from, a friend would do their best to help out when they can.

I guess everyone has their own definition of what a good friend is. And sometimes �t�s hard to apply what we�re used to to a new place or society. I have a few friends here who do their best to help me out and I also know that for some things it is too much to ask from them, friend or not.

Just don�t give up on an entire people or society, is all I�m saying. That kind of attitude won�t garner you more friends either.

[sarliz]

I know that this is a different context, but I made a pretty cool friend when I was just travelling in Mexico. I was in Merida for about a week, and one of the guys who worked at the hostel was really friendly and helpful, and I ended up hanging out with him and his friends and family quite a bit while I was there. Since then (this was about 6 months ago), we've managed to shoot emails at each other periodically, and he's invited me to his wedding (I sadly can't make it). It's not the deepest friendship ever, but it's given me faith that I can find some friendly souls wherever I may land.

[TheLongWayHome]

Here in San Luis Potos�, a city with a small town mentality, superficiality is king. The staggering gap between the rich and the poor, sometimes a matter of 2 or 3 blocks, creates the absurd social status and snobbery that fuels said mentality. Even Mexicans from outside San Luis who live here wonder what is up with the locals. For instance, I don�t know if this happens in other parts of Mexico, but the asking of someone�s surname in order to identify and place them socially is common here. It REALLY matters what car you drive, where you�re seen and how much wealth you can display to a lot of people here. There are people that won�t get on a bus, some that won�t even take a taxi for fear of what people might think. I�m outlining this as it affects to a greater or lesser extent the relationships you form here.

The friendships I have with Mexican guys here are all superficial. I need to respect the other person to have a meaningful friendship with them. It�s difficult to respect a person that can talk about their wife, their kids and the beauty of it all in the same breath as making light of being unfaithful, hitting women, letching in the street, going to strip clubs etc.

I find it easier to talk a little more openly to Mexican women, especially those that have lived outside of Mexico for extended periods. The culture here is extremely powerful, more so as it�s a culture that fosters cloying dependency rather than independence. This also makes for very clingy friendships, especially with women due to their total lack of self-esteem--eroded by the macho culture.

The language barrier is a double-edged sword. I definitely had more friends when I had to communicate in English, or better said, it took me longer to realize the above points.

[M@tt]

it sounds like cordoba is a slightly mellower version of SLP. the city is run and the upper social circles dominated by a handful of "spanish" clans. however, it IS veracruz state so even the snotty upper class has its light-hearted side.

in light of some of the previous comments i think it's really important to distinguish between friendliness and friendship. i have never had a problem finding friendly people. they are all over the place. but friendliness does not equate to friendship in any culture.

believe it or not i feel better about my relationships in DF than in provincia. one reason is that most of the people i've spent time with in DF seem slightly more cosmopolitan than in provincia--a little more open to seeing their world from a different perspective. although DF is 99% mexican, the idea of foreigners is not a novelty to chilangos the way it is in some parts of the country like cordoba. so, you have fewer people interested in being around you for silly reasons like your hair or your money or your exoticism.

this is somewhat unrelated but i have lost a lot of respect for men while living in mexico for the reasons frank zappa mentioned above. the same thing happened when i travelled in egypt. i think it's just a feature of third world (macho) cultures that the piggish side of men is unrestrained and even encouraged, often by their mothers.

my two cents.

[ontoit]

Then there is where you are on your own journey. I have wife, children, an income that saves us the inconvenience of having to choose A or B for most of what we buy and relatives to step in for non-financial things like baby sitting and co-signing.

I'm not much into hobbies or clubs, being very satisfied with my work and desiring the company of my wife and kids when diversions are in order. I work with my wife, so we have plenty of time to chat, talk shop or what not while we tap away on our computers.

The ex-pats I know have all been around for a while, so we share similar experience. It's always nice to share a beer or a bite with them, but with the exception of the truly special occasions, I don't feel any urgency about meeting them. The natives I consider friends are all people I've developed relationships with over the years through language and shared interests such as kids, work or whatever. I had dinner last night with an orthodontist I've know for 10 or so years for the first time in 7 months to celebrate our both having lost 2 kilos, a coincidental thing that just happened to come up in conversation a few weeks ago.

My point is that most of the people I know are close to where I am in terms of their involvement in work and family. The time that we might devote to our friendships is being spent on the pleasures of the home.

In terms of new friends, I find people seek me out for information or help, which I freely give; but regardless of how nice or interesting they are, I really don't have much time for them. And I figure that most of these folks see my presence in their lives pretty much the same way.

When I was younger, single, a student, a soldier or whatever, friends played a larger role in my life. Now, much less so.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[ontoit]

Far from haunting me, I kind of think that this attitude will save me by helping me to remember that some stages of a person's life leave them less able to become involved in certain relationships.

Additionally, I think it helps me to remember that sharing an interest in, let's say, the perfect shot of espresso doesn't guarantee shared interest in anything else.

What I think is that claims about certain cultures producing shallower friendships is a misunderstanding of the above.