Job Discussion Forums

[Big John Stud]

I read on another thread a post from Aristotle:

10 Steps to Success on Taiwan!

I am wondering are these ten steps true. If not which ones are not true?
Should I go to Taiwan to find a job or try over the internet? And why does the 10 steps recommend not working for a chain school.

Thanks for any advice!

[dangerousapple]

Don't worry too much about Aristotle and his 10 steps to deportation. Get a legal job and contribute to society. Anything else will result in trouble.

I recommend trying to secure a job before you get here. A lot of people don't agree with that, and think it's better to just come over and start looking. The only problem is the number of foreign teachers here has exploded in the last 5 years. The market is getting saturated with foreigners and schools that hire foreigners. A lot of schools are toughening up their standards. Basically, with the number of people here looking for work, we have the luxury to be picky (yes, I am a school owner). Some guy walking in off the street with a backpack and a smile is probably not going to get a dream job.

You can sign up with an agent, but be careful with that, as agents are another problem altogether. Search the threads for what people say about them.

The best thing is to continue doing your research, get a feeling for what a standard contract contains, and start contacting schools looking for teachers. You need a lot of due diligence, but you can secure a good job from overseas.

Be wary of any school that offers you a job on the spot. Any school that doesn't thoroughly check you out might not know how to treat you well.

[Big John Stud]

Thanks a million dangerousapple

Your post sounds logical. I have been teaching in Asia for more than 8 years but never in Taiwan.
I had read so many post about going there first and then looking for a job, but kept thinking what an investment that would be.

Right now, I am thinking of trying to set up interviews and then taking a vacation there from Japan.

Japan as well has become saturated with English teachers and so the pay is dropping whilst the price of living is increasing.

[Ki]

Dangerousapple,

I'm interested. Why would you recommend trying to "secure a job" beforehand? As a school owner wouldn't you prefer someone who you can meet in person and provide a demo over someone from overseas? All things being equal, the overseas guy is just as likely to carry a backpack.

I would recommend against securing a job from overseas. These jobs seem to be provided mostly by chain schools and recruiters. The chain schools, as has been recently discussed here, may quite well be a good option for an inexperienced teacher as they provide training and other so called benefits but may prove a source of discontentment for an experienced teacher like our friend John.

Jobs with recruiters are not actually secured as you still need to interview and demo with the school regardless. Recruiters, agents, consultant companies or whatever other name they want to give themselves may or may not be a useful tool. This has also been discussed recently and internet sites are an excellent resource for this. There used to be an excellent site for this information but they now seem to require a fee to join. What a shame. Just don't ever sign a contract with a recruiter. Contracts must always in every circumstance be signed with the school.

But that is just my opinion.

[SanChong]

[dangerousapple]

Quite simply, I don't like to hire people already in Taiwan because the quality usually isn't high enough. Good teachers stay at their schools, and poor teachers don't (I'm not talking about teachers who leave a bad school). If I want to hire a brand-new teacher I will go looking for them overseas, not wait for them to walk in my front door.

I try to only hire teachers with education degrees, preferably certified K-8. There aren't many certified teachers wandering around Taiwan looking for work. I use my contacts in the Canadian and American school systems to find candidates, and then we spend some time getting to know each other through phone calls and emails. I want to make entirely sure that this is the teacher I want, and that I am the school that he/she wants.

Another problem is that teachers already here may have picked up some poor teaching habits. There are a lot of foreigners here that should not be in a classroom, but they have been doing it for a year or two and they think they have mastered teaching. I don't want to deal with that kind of nonsense. This is my business, and I can't afford the kind of damage that a bad teacher can cause. I treat my staff very well, but I expect the absolute best from them in return.

Demos are ineffective and a waste of time, so I don't use them. A nervous teacher in front of a bunch of kids that don't want to be there, or ever worse, other staff pretending to be teachers. Absolutely no value. Over the years, I have found that the teachers I hire from home are more stable than those I hire from inside Taiwan.

It's just my opinion, but it works for me. Other ways work better for other people.

[Ki]

Wow. Thanks for the great responses. First of all, how secure are the reach to teach positions? Any position, garnered here or elsewise is still under the discretion of the one month we are able to fire you without penalty clause. It works both ways though and I have no problem with this. Just be specific that a job from overseas is at a specific school at a specific location. Otherwise stay clear away from them.

I have no direct information good or otherwise from Reach to Teach so I cannot comment from them one way or the other.

[Ki]

Secondly,

Dangerous Apple, that is a new perspective for me and a welcome one at that. I have never looked for an English teacher, either in Taiwan or abroad, so I really have no first hand experience at which is the best outcome. It seems to you that from abroad teachers are the best option though I do ask that you not to exclude every Taiwan-experienced teacher just on your experience. It is quite easy for a teacher to finish their year at a school and decide that they want a different or more professional experience for their second year. This all depends on you though. I just hope that you aren't swayed one way or another on a statistic.

The education degrees are a good indication of quality though not necessarily so. It just helps to cut down the statistics.

Good demos don't necessarily guarantee a good teacher though they can at least demonstrate at least a little teaching experience. Which is better than nothing but may not be up a higher standard.

I am happy that you give and expect the best Dangerousapple. Hopefully more schools and teachers will follow suit. However you think is best to hire is up to you in the end, statistics, gut instinct or otherwise. In the end it is you who benefits/suffers from your hiring techniques.

Nobody has mastered teaching and everyone has room for improvement. I would hate to pretend to know everything best.

[BigWally]

[dangerousapple]

Ki,

couldn't agree with you more. I have the same sentiments as you about including or excluding. I actually hired my latest teacher from inside Taiwan. However, I still prefer to do it from overseas.

[Big John Stud]

I just want to thank everyone for their advice. You all have given me food for thought. I still have some time before my contract ends in Japan. So until then, I will try to hook something up from here.

Thanks again!

[AncientGeek]

Since it came up, I would advise certified teachers and those with education degrees to never work at a school that requires a demo and to always refuse to do them. Demo's remove your education and experience from the equation and replace them with one short lesson-- a lesson for which you often have no real idea of the student's level, their names, what they have been doing, which are nearly impossible to prepare for, and which are often evaluated by people unqualified to do so. Most schools requiring demos are unprofessional imo and you're better off avoiding them.

[dvasas]

[Aristotle]

Hi Big John,
Advice is just that, advice. The ten steps to success have been tried and found true by many but may not apply to every situation. The general idea is to prepare people mentally for the possible difficulties they may have as teachers on Taiwan by reading advice from teachers who have come before them.
The travel and work advisories are based on factual events that have never been resolved. These events are:

[jonks]