Job Discussion Forums

[Pinkpepper]

I know that everywhere in the world there is unfair judgement and discrimination.

But I am still curious as to how Korea/China/Japan etc. etc. are with it.

Is it a problem (or, rather slightly difficult) if you are black, white, blonde, fat (since most of the Asian people seem to be rather slim and small), covered with tattoos or piercings, really tall, female, disabled, male, a young teacher, too old....

What is the situation in good ol' Asia? What are your experiences?

[Glenski]

Discrimination exists in Japan. Sometimes on the surface, sometimes hidden below several layers.

Take a look at www.debito.org for some prime info on discrimination against foreigners in Japan.

[Pinkpepper]

cool, will check it out, thank you!!

[Rin]

You're going to get stared at, all the time. Fact of life in any part of Asia.

But if you want specific examples I'll give you the ones from my experiences in Asia.

(1) Tattoos: In Korea they should be hidden since having a tattoo is a sign of being a criminal. I believe the same applies in Japan, but mine where never seen there so I'm not sure. Percings are also going to cause a bit of a stir and should probably be hidden if possible. However in the Middle East peircings and tattos are accepted and barely raise an eyebrow. You would be surprised how many nice little Muslim girls have tattoos and nose piercings under their abayas.

(2) Blonde: If you are women there are lots of people in East Asia who will think you are a Russian prostitute. In the Middle East it doesn't raise an eyebrow. Though the little kids LOVE blue eyes in both cultures.

(3) Fat vs. Skinny: No matter how big you are you are going to be considered "fat" in Eastern Asia. I'm 118 lbs, 5 ft 6 and I barely fit into a pair of jeans in Korea and Japan. We western women have these inventions called hips (we also have b*reasts, but I'll get to that). So get used to being fat. In the Middle East I'm considered very skinny (same as the West).

(4)B*reasts! Korean and Japanese kids love em cause their mommies don't have them! I had mine grabbed by more 4 year olds than I ever have by my boyfriends. I was even asked why mine are so big (which they aren't) and his mommies aren't. In the Middle East, they aren't noticed (those girls got curves!)

(5) Disabilities: considered a shame and an embarrasment in all Asian countries.

(6)Black or Brown: I will not repeat the racism that I have heard from Koreans, Japanese and Arabs. It is disgusting. As is their treatment of these people. Neo-Slavery is alive and well in the Middle East.

(7) Young teacher: East Aisa is very ageist, in the sense that the younger you are the worse you are treated. It's not too bad, but it can be a bit of a pain when it comes to handing out extra hours, etc.

( Just being Western: causes no stir in the Middle East, but does in East Aisa. It's almost like being famous.

Hope I answered your questions.

[Pinkpepper]

wow, cool. thank you for the info!!

sounds very interesting.

wonder how it will be... I have a dark complexion, dark hair and light green-gray eyes. And I have quite a few pounds too much on my hips...so the breast factor can be imagined. haha.

am also quite young (23) so might have to work extra hard to be more respected.

ok, am prepared for grabbing and staring (and possibly a few comments on my weight).

very, very interesting.

[tedkarma]

Dicrimination certianly exists. But due to demand, I think the situation is improving. And, ever so slowly, Asia (in particular) seems to be realizing that "native speakers" as not all white, blond, blue, 23, thin, etc.

A good discussion of the issue is at:

http://tefldaddy.com/Not_Blond.htm

[Pinkpepper]

interesting site, thank you!

still - coming from south africa with german heritage and up-bringing, I thought I knew all about discrimination. guess i was wrong.

[*_*]

I'm kind of worried about discrimination too.

I'm 24 and have spent most of my life in Canada but I'm originally from East Africa. not entirely sure if the students will be openminded and accepting. but heck I'll try my best to make a good impression and let them get to know me for who I am!

[qas419]

Discrimination is basically a colonial heritage. When the British colonized India, they tried hard to apply the exact British educational system there. For them it was almost unimaginable to see a coloured person speaking or even teaching English. Such an attitude produced some kind of inferiority complex among the Asians; so to day, in order to be exonerated from speaking Queens English, the Asians are happy with their own Indian English or Chinese English. Another reason for discrimination in Asia is the fact that Colonialism engrafted deep into the minds of the colonized people the pseudo- image of a white person as a civilized, well-educated and infallible. We all remember Conrad's Heart of Darkness and the comparison made between kurtz's African mistress and his white beloved in London. That's why in Asia and in the Middle East, a white person, irrespective of nationality and gender, is unconsciously seen as the symbol of perfection. Even if he/she doesn't know how to teach or even to speak correct English, the Chinese and the Japanese and the Arabs would accept him/her as the native speaker of the English language. A quick look at the English language teaching situation in the Middle East and in particular in the Gulf regions (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Bahrain Qatar & Oman), shows a sharp rise in the number of Russian/East European ESL teachers. They are white (so nobody would debate their colour) and much cheaper than British/Australians or white Americans. I have worked for years in the recruitment committees in the Middle East, and always the issue of colour popped up. Is he/she white or coloured? And of course I would immediately murmur to myself Soynka's poem's "Telephone Conversation" :

Considerate she was, varying the emphasis--
"ARE YOU DARK? OR VERY LIGHT?" Revelation came.
"You mean--like plain or milk chocolate?"
Her assent was clinical, crushing in its light
Impersonality. Rapidly, wave-length adjusted,
I chose. "West African sepia"--and as afterthought,
"Down in my passport." Silence for spectroscopic
Flight of fancy, till truthfulness clanged her accent
Hard on the mouthpiece. "WHAT'S THAT?" conceding
"DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS." "Like brunette."
"THAT'S DARK, ISN'T IT?" "Not altogether.
Facially, I am brunette, but, madam, you should see
The rest of me. Palm of my hand, soles of my feet
Are a peroxide blond. Friction, caused--
Foolishly, madam--by sitting down, has turned
My bottom raven black--One moment, madam!"--sensing
Her receiver rearing on the thunderclap
About my ears--"Madam," I pleaded, "wouldn't you rather
See for yourself?"

[JZer]

Yes, racism definantly exist in Korea. My boss did not even want to look at the applications from people who were not white. Not everyone is the same but the point is that some people do think this way.

[Yu]

In China I think if you are an outsider you are discriminated against. They will charge higher prices for foreigners, but they will also do this for non-local Chinese.

[smokingzen]

Qas 419, i'm afraid to say that most of the things that you have written in your post are completely wrong and misinformative. Discrimination, especially due to colour or tone of skin, has been around in India for many thousands of years before Britain colonised India. It goes back to the time when the lighter skinned Aryas (arians) invaded/colonised what we now call india sometime between 3000 and 1000 BC! The then indiginous peoples were of a darker skin, and from this master slave relationship between white and dark, there formed the castes and varnas.
Also in East Asia people have always desired or respected paler skins, even within their own communities, this is because a darker skin usually represented manual labour and many hours having worked out in the sun, where the those with the best jobs and higher positions were paler because they were out of the sun.
Although what you say might hold some small grain of truth to it, it is completely wrong to hold such grains up as being the cause of such attitudes. Many/most of these countries have never even been colonised; Thailand, Japan, South Korea being just a few examples. Infact most discrimination (based on clour or looks) actually stems from such countries internal zenaphobia which can be found in most culturally ignorant people world wide. Indeed, discrimination of most types, usually accompanies ignorance.

[Craig!]

Be fat and happy .
Look at all the Buddha statues everywhere, and look in Christian churches in China - you see Fat Father Christmas, and not the crucified Christ.
Because it's better to be fat and happy, than slim and sad.

[winterlynx1]

My experience is that skin and hair color matters in my part of China (aside - generalized statements about how 'Chinese' behave socially carry their own prejudicial mark - this is an extremely heterogenous people). If you are female, blonde or redhead, young and pretty, you can write your own ticket in the TESOL world. You'll be worth big bucks to the language school.

If you're black you'll have to work five times as hard as a white guy. If you're Asian, English L1, many doors will be closed.

That said, I know an adopted, black, Canadian boy who lives with his parents here in China. He's treated very well by the locals. But then, he hasn't tried applying for a job either.

[Pinkpepper]

Ah, I like you, Craig!! Love the attitude! Go, happy, fat people!!

Regarding discrimination: I am in Ulsan, South Korea now, teaching English. And so far I haven't had any problems with discrimination. Some locals stare, but in a good-natured way. Some greet you when you walk past, others even try to have a conversation with you. They are EXTREMELY helpful and friendly, some even give you free stuff (I went to the market, bought a big packet of rice cakes from an old lady who was making them right there. She was so excited, that she stuffed another couple of rice cakes in my hand. Very sweet (the lady and the rice cakes! )). And if you ever even try to give a tip, be it to a taxi driver or a waiter, they refuse. The people here are honest and do not put up prices just because you are a foreigner. (In my experience so far).

There was one situation of discrimmination against me colleague. He was starting to become very good friends with one of the Korean teachers from the academy and then the director went up to Marc (my colleague) and pretty much told him that he doesn't approve of their friendship, that Marc is forcing his 'western ways' on to the teacher and that Korean ladies value their chastity (and the director was aware that Marc had a girlfriend in South Africa). The director even changed the timetable, so Marc and the teacher wouldn't have their lunch brake together anymore.

But when Marc's girlfriend came to visit, the whole thing was forgotten about and he never heard anything about that topic since.

Other than that, I have not had any problems with discrimination, unfair judgement or racism myself. I am not blonde and skinny - am the exact opposite of Barbie - and to be honest, I think that even if I were, it would not make much of a difference. At least not here.