Job Discussion Forums

[Dark_Knight]

Hello Everyone,

I'm returning to China soon for my second visit. I was previously here for a semester in Shanghai in 2002. But, that ended prematurely because my girlfriend of the time couldn't handle it there anymore.

I now have the channce to return and want to try for a different experience in a more remote area of China. And, although I had quite a good time in Shanghai, in both the work and the social scene, I didn't learn the language at all. I'm wondering if that will make life impossible in the remote places I'm considering?

I've had a number of offers and have narrowed it down to a few universities in Hunan and a couple in Guijou.

In hunan I have been considering offers in Changsha, Jujou and Xiangtan, which are close together. Actually, I don't think I want to go to Changsha as I have discovered it is quite a big city. Does anyone know much about the other two?

In Guijou I am conjsidering offers in Guiyang and Zunyi. Again Guiyang seems to be quite a big city. The work in Zunyi is actually at a private training centre. This town is up in the mountains, so I'm worried about travelling up and down the mountain by road, is it safe? I have also read about contaminated soil being a problem in Guijou but I don't know where, and does it affect foreigners?

I guess what I'm asking is have other people without much Chinese survived a one year contract in these remote places?

I'm 27 with a Bachelor of Arts in Graphic Design and Media, and in 2001 I got my TEFL certification. I have not tried to renew this.

Cheerio,

TT

[Songbird]

Hey Dark Knight!

Good on you for trying the middle of China! I spent my year last year in a place called Xifeng, about an 8 hour hair raising bus ride north west of Xian. There was nothing there but mountains and grottoes, grottoes....and did I mention grottoes? It's an extremely poor place, not a lot of opportunity for these poor kids in rural family farming communities but they have HUGE hearts and are great to get to know. It's just their motivation needs a wee little working on! Some of their stories are heartbreaking, like they come from high schools that do not even have a library (1 guy said he bought himself a book in English with a tape and taught himself entirely- I had to walk away in tears!) and families having to sell sections of their farms or at least some of their equipement to give their kids a chance at tertiary education. It really makes you stop and think of just how much we take for granted in Western countries....

I'm actually heading back to another town, this time 2 hours from Xian called Baoji, a better off town than Xifeng but still in the backwaters. I've thought about going to a big city but I'm far more interested in really helping the underpriveledged there, it's an amazing experience.

Yes it does get lonely, especially if there are no other foreigners in the town (thankfully I had a few and we ALWAYS got together for meals, we're still pretty good friends actually and hope to visit when I head back in a month!)- if you're right into the nightlife, wanting to travel on a weekend etc, being in the backwaters may not be for you. And yes, no English is spoken, I went only knowing 'Ni Hao', using charades and I could not possibly live without my Lonely Planet phrasebook! I still know very little Chinese, but hey, that's not gonna stop me!

Good luck with your decision (so what WAS Shanghai like btw? I'll be flying into there on the 14th August)!

[Super Mario]

I had 3 years in Shanghai. Whilst I speak enough Mandarin to handle day to day stuff [but not everyone in SH speaks that dialect], I knew other FTs with no Chinese language who coped in most situations. Students were a mix. Some highly motivated, others couldn't give a rats, the majority were somewhere in between.
In contrast, two years in Guangxi province gave me students with a strong commitment and work ethic. This is the big plus. If you don't speak the language, you'll need to rely on a combination of mime, interpretive dance, and helpful students/teachers where ever you are.
But a stint in the sticks will give you a taste of China that is more typical than Shanghai.

[Dark_Knight]

Hello,

Thank you both for your replies.

Hehe. I remember the miming we used to do in Shanghai.

I don't think I'd have the courage to go to the really small places. I suppose when I say remote I simply mean away from the East coast, but not totally away from civilisation.

Although, I imagine you can make a real difference in someone's life in those small towns/villages. Which seems to be bourne out in your words. Maybe this will be a stepping stone.

The students at the school I worked at in Shanghai last time were reasonably motivated, though I suppose they did tend to have trouble keeping their minds on the class and not their mobile phones. I hope that that habit has been abolished these days.

Where are you in Australia? After Shanghai my girl and I went back home to London before we split up, but I've been back-packing around Australia for the past 8 months. I'm on the Sunshine Coast now on my way back down to meet some chums in Sydney town before heading to China. It's nice here now, but when I was here a few months ago in Noosa during late summer that was something super special!

Songbird, I remember at that time in Shanghai it was a scene of skyscrapers as far as the eye could see. And, in between the skyscrapers were buildings cranes as far as the eye could see! I'm not sure whether that's still what's happening or not. Visually spectactular and quite vibrant in many ways. But, it also had some history, from the Bund to the YuYuan Temple.

I'm looking forward to having more chance to travel this time around. Last time I only went as far as Hangzhou and Suzhou. They were great places to visit!

Oh, just to correct my last message. Some one messaged me to say that I made some mistakes. The town near Changsha should be Zhuzhou, not jujou as I had written it. Also Guizhou, not Guijou. I think I have alot of work on my mandarin ahead of me!

Cheerio,

TT

[Super Mario]

I'm in Adelaide; no Chinese has ever heard of it.
One of the medium size inland cities might suit you. Guilin, Guangxi was my home. These places have a lot to like about them: reasonable comfort levels for us foreigners, but the countryside is only a short trip away.
The construction is still going on in SH, but its moved out of Pudong/Puxi into the residential areas, with housing estates replacing shikumen and marginal farming land.

[Songbird]

Wow, small world, Dark Knight, I'm actually FROM the Sunshine Coast, still here now, down near Caloundra way! You're near Noosa....doesn't do anything for me! You couldn't pay me a million maos to head back there!

Still, I'm very muchly looking forward to heading back to China in the next month, I'm so homesick, it's been too long with this stupid knee injury!

[Roger]

I am not totally in the clear about the places you mentioned in HUNAN province due to your romanisation (I guess one of the towns is JIUJIANG, but am not sure.

Language-wise, most FTs survive without knowing Mandarin or a local vernacular - you are not going to go under!

In CHOOSING a location, I personally would advise against Hunan because it gets awfully hot in summer (apparently hotter than in Guangdong.

But some have different opinions on this: ask Wozal - she spent a momentous time in one of the Hunan towns you listed.

As for GUIZHOU province: it has a more benign climate, which offsets quite downsides such as low pay or backwardness of the places.
Guiyang is not really a big city - it's growing but it's still manageable.
I am not a friend of towns such as ZUNYI - but again, others might have better impressions. I personally felt the place was so run-dolwn and desolate that I wouldn't stay there for any length of time.

Small towns not on a major communication line sometimes suffer from the pull of the more economically active urban centres - you see the old and middle-aged that have no hopes of migrating to the glitzy big cities; but there are also small towns that retain their young and attract tourists. For example HAIKOU seems to be such a town - not to big, not too attractive for mainlanders to settle (not enough jobs! but charming for others who value the climate and the pristine environment on the city limits.

[Teababy]

Chengdu.

Inland, close to some remote areas of China, but a nice city in and of itself. Decent-sized.

[no_exit]

I'd choose Guizhou over Hunan. Hunan is super hot in the summer. I have a friend who taught in Changsha and wasn't impressed. You won't find standard Mandarin in either place, but it shouldn't be a huge issue.

Guiyang is not really that big. It is a provincial capital, but of one of the poorer provinces. That said, you will be near Hainan Island, and Guizhou also has a decent mix of Minority cultures, a pleasant climate (it'll be hot in the summer, but not Changsha kind of heat), and if you're teaching at a university there, you're probably going to be teaching more down to earth country kids, not spoiled rich brats.

Chengdu or Kunming would also be good choices. PM if you want any specifics of working out here.

[HunanForeignGuy]

Actually Zhuzhou is not a bad place at all. The weather in that part of Hunan -- ChangSha, Zhuzhou and the very industrial town of Xiantang -- is awful. There is no other way to describe it. The summers are easily 42 C. (110 F.) with 100% humidity and unless you have been to the Amazon, you have never seen anything like it. Air quality, particularly in ChangSha and its industrial suburb Xiantang -- is terrible. In winter, it actually can rain nearly every day for three-or-four months. Everything is wet, the houses are cold and damp, mildew is omnipresent. The weather is like something from an Edgar Allen Poe novel. The people in Zhuzhou and ChangSha are quite decent, generally speaking, while the people in the industrial town of Xiantang, are, well, a little neanderthal on occasion, to be polite about it. If you can tolerate extremes in climate, then you may wish to consider it. Both Zhuzhou and ChangSha are rapidly developing cities, more first-world than second. Xiantang, on the other hand, well, holds promise.

Your choice. Me, like the others on this thread have suggested, I would try Kumming or Chengdu, depending upon your likes and/or needs.

[lf_aristotle69]

Yes. Hunan can be warm, but rarely above the mid-30's. And, many parts of China, even way in the north, have hot summers. And, it doesn't get as famously hot as some other parts of China (e.g. WuHan and ChongQing). I don't think it's any worse than a ShangHai summer here, in fact maybe not as bad.

I am in XiangTan now. Send me a PM if you are still looking for a job. My uni is hiring.

It's not a bad little city. Cost of living is low, so you can save a very high percentage of your salary. Up to 60 or 70%. And, yes, I've seen it done without the person being a total hermit! There're a good friendly bunch of teachers from the various other universities and schools to hang out with. And, some good local sights, bars and entertainment. It's also a good staging post for visiting the nearby provinces of GuangXi, YunNan, SiChuan, and so on.

Of course it does experience pollution, as do almost all Chinese cities. I'm sure you experienced that when you lived in Shanghai, and when you visited those other cities nearby. People with respiratory illnesses should necessarily be much more selective.

I have been to ChangSha many times, and ZhuZhou once. Both are quite OK too. ChangSha is the provincial capital and so you can expect more facilities, and a higher cost of living.

All the tri-city (ChangSha, XiangTan, and ZhuZhou) area is developing very fast.

As HFG mentioned there was a lot of rain early this year, but it was not quite that frequent, and I don't think it's the norm. I was here the previous year at that time of year as well and it was nothing like the same. Local people say that the rain earlier this year was abnormal. Besides, in any case it helps to keep the air clear!

I have visited ChengDu, which others have mentioned. It's definitely a big city, but I liked it. It seemed a much more easy-going place than BeiJing (which I like) and ShangHai (which I don't like).

If you can handle the cold in winter, then think about ChangChun too. The north of China has centrally heated buildings, which is a big plus.

Good luck!

LFA

[HunanForeignGuy]

Dear Anthony,

In reviewing the records on Yahoo or on Accuweather, you will note that indeed that was rain for 85 out of 92 days in the ChangSha / Xiangtan / Zhuzhou are between January 1st and April 5 of this year. And the long-term high and low record averages do indicate that indeed there is a very, very wet season in that period. And you may wish to look at the ChangSha temperatures for the last month or so, and next month in particular, to see if it never gets above 30...my friends in that area call it an oven.

Paper it over as you will, there is no way around it : the weather is an issue in the ChangSha - Zhuzhou - Xiangtan area. Frankly, it you MUST choose one of those cities, then by all means consider ChangSha. The natives are actually quite frankly and you may actually enjoy it. You should consider the other two choices as only staging grounds for other things or as a fall-back position.

But frankly, if you check on the 'Net, there have been a lot of really good job openings in ChengDu and in Kumming, and if you are a university graduate and a native speaker from one of the scheduled countries, send me a PM and I will put you in contact with someone who deals with both of these places.

ChengDu is a really cool, great place to be. It's a major city with a heart, and lots and lots of choices of good places to work. The subway should be finished soon and that will make travelling easier from one end to the other. There is just so much variety and if you don't want the city proper, there are some very leafy, green suburbs with nice schools. I enjoyed the localsl. They were worldy and not small-minded. And you could have a really wide choice of possible friends, etc.

Anyway, all the best and let me know if I can render any assistance.



HFG

[Qinjingyou]

I like Zunyi quite a lot, but it is kinda small in the sense of having much to do. THe weather's nice and the people are friendly. The local language is different enough from putonghua that comprehension can be difficult.

The highways aren't particularly dangerous, I've ridden from Zunyi to Guiyang on a bus while snow was falling without consequence.

If you're uncomfortable being the only foreigner around, it might not be the place for you.