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frigginhippie
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 188
Location: over here
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 Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: subject-object grammar Q (challenge) |
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Okay, I know everyone learned one way or believes subject/object pronouns should be written according to a strict rule. I'm asking for proof of that rule for the following 2 sentences. Can you show me this is right OR wrong, citing a webpage or text (preferably a credible one)?
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The sentences in question:
Everyone except Jane and I decided to watch the movie.
It is difficult for my friends and I to even contemplate cheating.
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The "I" in each sounds perfectly natural, but defies the rules stating "I is a subject and ME is an object". These rules offer a simple test, namely remove the other person, to determine which choice is correct.
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example 1:
You and I study well together ---> (you and) I study well together. + right
You and me study well together -> (you and) Me study well together. - wrong
example 2:
Dave gave this site to you and I. --> Dave gave this site to I. - wrong
Dave gave this site to you and me. -> Dave gave this site to me. + right
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But apply this test to the sentences in question and you get the opposite effect:
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Everyone except I decided to watch the movie.
It is difficult for I even to contemplate cheating. |
This omission sounds incorrect to me, but the original sentences sound correct. I have no proof for either, since the sentence structure is more complex than in Exs. 1 and 2. Do you have any explanation for this? Please cite your source.
Thank you!!!
-fh |
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KWhitehead
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 78
Location: neither here nor there
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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okay, according to the OED (Oxford English Dictionary), "except" and "for" are both prepositions. when the first person pronoun is the object of a preposition, it becomes "me".
and personally, i don't think "i" sounds natural in either sentence.
is that what you're asking for? |
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Mr D Improbably
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 468
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure it should be:
Everyone except Jane and me decided to watch the movie.
It is difficult for my friends and me to even contemplate cheating.
Using 'I' sounds more natural because it's extremely common to use 'I' incorrectly. Blame parents trying to teach their kids 'correct' English and getting it wrong. |
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frigginhippie
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 188
Location: over here
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I would write "me" in the prepositional phrase as well. It's just that "except jane and me" sounds unedumacated to my ears. I think you're both right though. Thank you for the help!
-fh |
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Leon Purvis
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Nowhere Near Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Personal pronouns are of three cases: nominative, objective, and possessive.
Prepositions require objects.
Since prepositions require objects, and you have chosen to use a personal pronoun, you must use the pronoun of the proper case.
"Me" is objective case. It is, therefore the correct form of the personal pronoun in the first person singular.
This is not proof. This is the grammatical convention.
Try using "I" as the object of a preposition without a noun preceeding it. That could help to tune your ear and to help you remember the grammatical convention. |
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