Job Discussion Forums

[tedkarma]

Justin has the best forumla: There is no formula. I would have to agree - it depends GREATLY on the specific students. Though I am still careful.

Generally speaking though - when in doubt - error on the side of what is socially acceptable behavior where you are.

[JZer]

[Gregor]

The God question can be touchy, depending on where you are.
I don't quite get Denise's adversity to lying about that - after all, lying is my first, knee-jerk reaction to someone asking me a very personal question they have no business asking. I guess some people look down on liars. To me, there are good reasons to lie, and if I have one I do so without conscience.
By the way, it is NOT a cultural thing, as it turns out. I've been in Indonesia, China and Mexico for a number of years, and in none of those places would polite people ask personal questions without an appologistic demeanor. That is, unless they felt for some reason (such as talking to an obvious foreigner in an English class) that they didn't need to be polite.

About God, though, in a secular school where it wasn't part of the curriculum either way, I'd tell the truth. If I was teaching in a religious school (which situation I can't even imagine how I could possibly get into), I'd lie through my teeth. I mean, my job could depend on that answer, right?

[Chancellor]

[shuize]

A similar topic came up a few months ago in the Japan forum related to an individual's criminal record. The short version of my comments on that thread is that you'd have to be retarded to volunteer such information to students in Japan. Same goes for discussing (even past) drug use: retarded.

Maybe things are different in other places. But in my opinion, nothing positive can come from sharing such information in Japan.

[denise]

As to lying... an occasional white lie to save someone from being hurt (akin to the stereotypical "Does this dress make me look fat?" question) might be OK, but lying about myself to save myself from getting into trouble?!?!? Nope. My supervisors knew when they hired me that I wasn't Catholic, and I knew when I took the job that it was a Catholic uni (didn't realize what, exactly, that entailed, though!). I was advised to stay away from controversial topics, which I do, but as far as I know there are no similar restraints on what the students can and cannot ask.

By lying, which in this case would involve saying that I am religious, I really feel that I would be doing myself a disservice. There are reasons why I am not religious. I have my beliefs, and I stand behind them and stand up for them. In this particular context, though, I can't, since standing up for beliefs that go against the beliefs of my school would probably be considered controversial.

I think my students get the point, though, when I dodge their questions! And I have, in the past, actually said "no," but that is usually the end of the discussion!

f

[rusmeister]

Ted and Gregor are mostly right on, for my money.
It's foolish and insensitive to lay all of your cards on the table. You're assuming that students or your employer have the same level of maturity development that you do, and along the same lines. They may not be ready, or incapable of understanding how your answer indicates future behavior (in the case of employers) or behavior worth emulating (in the case of students).

My one caveat is on faith. See my signature. Then it's gloves off, IF they ask. They asked. (I'm Orthodox Christian, aka Eastern, Russian, Greek, Antiochian, etc Orthodox, so look out!)

[Gregor]

[Stephen Jones]

The problem with lying is that you have to remember all your lies.

Denise will probably be devastated to know that the story of George Washington and the apple tree is a complete fabrication, made up in 1820.

[denise]

No, Mr. Jones, I am not devastated, nor even surprised. Nice to see you haven't lost your bite, though. Now go pick on someone else.

Gregor-- I don't know why you have gone to extremes and assumed that I am some sort of super-moral being. I just think that lying to save one's own a$$ is weak. I don't pretend to be something that I'm not. I don't make myself out to be any better or worse than I am.

I don't plan on living in any places where getting a visa is dependent on religion.

d

[Gregor]

Denise,
My humble appologies if I have offended. I hope not. It would be very silly - to say the least - to attack someone for NOT being a liar. For whatever reason, you won't lie to save yourself. That's a COMMENDABLE thing to many people, and I don't know you so I am not saying that you're wrong or crazy or anything. I hope I didn't imply that.
I'm just saying that I don't share that more. And why I don't.
Seriously. No offense intended, I promise. It's just fun to talk about.

[denise]

No offense taken! Your points were all valid.

d

[Jyulee]

Funnily enough, I was having a very similar conversation to this topic the other day with another teacher/friend of mine (an ex-regular here - "leroy" says hi by the way).

I think that such personal information should be kept well away from students at all times, he disagrees!

Not terribly detailed or insightful I know, but it's late!

[JZer]

[Gregor]

I WAS saying that you should at least be perfectly ready to lie to save your own ass, if need be. There's certainly nothing wrong with it.

I think lying is bad if it can lead to someone getting hurt, or else if you are just trying to avoid confrontation - that shows a lack of character in my opinion. As an American, I run the risk of coming off as arrogant, but I don't mean that we should seek out confrontation, nor should a confrontation necessarily be unpleasant or angry or violent.

No, the lying I am not only willing to do, but also good at, is lying to hide personal information, either to avoid an unnecessary cultural conflict or else to satisfy some random governmental requirement. Hell, I'm PROUD of THOSE kinds of lies, sometimes.