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Best place to forge a career out of teaching English abroad?
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you didn't forget it, then the only way you'll earn that "western wage in the east" is by working for a western company in the east that pays expats western salaries AND expects its expats to live in western style.


The real problem seems to be that you really don't get paid for your experience. In Korea you can make a wage that would be similar to a starting teacher in the US. The gross pay is not as high but when you figure in taxes and having to rent an apartment in the UNited States you can see that teaching in Korea would give you as good of salary as teaching in the US.
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tedkarma



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the university/college level of TEFL - you can often get paid for experience. My last employer (university in Korea) rates their professors and pays according to relevant years of experience. Just another reason for quickly seeking a graduate degree. . .

This was also true where I worked in Saudi Arabia. And will be true at my next place of employment Cool . Generally not true though - for entry-level type jobs.
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
The real problem seems to be that you really don't get paid for your experience.
As Ted says, experience usually results in very nice financial rewards in Asia -- except for employees who don't have much relevant professional experience. Wink
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Super Mario



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1022
Location: Australia, previously China

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the OP, I think the ideas of extended TEFLing and staying in the one country don't really go hand in hand. Use what you have to get around and see the world.
And next, you really want to get yourself qualified to an extent whereby you can teach ESL in your home country. Being the eternal expat could wear a bit thin, and being a geriatric expat a bit uncomfortable. TEFL courses won't generally give you this qualification. A PGCTESOL, or higher, will.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As Ted says, experience usually results in very nice financial rewards in Asia -- except for employees who don't have much relevant professional experience.


I would say that it doesn't really. Even if I get a PhD, I can never earn as much as a Korean PhD. It is a prove fact that there is a two tier salary system. That is why I think that experience is not really rewarded in Korea and why I think it would be hard for one to make a career out of it.
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the same experience and record as an Asian Ph.D., you can of course get the same money. However, if you are just out of school working in your first professional job abroad, you can't yet expect to have accumulated much experience that is worth anything to an Asian employer.

And outside of academics, the story is even better.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you have the same experience and record as an Asian Ph.D., you can of course get the same money. However, if you are just out of school working in your first professional job abroad, you can't yet expect to have accumulated much experience that is worth anything to an Asian employer.


This might be true in Japan but from what I have heard, I have no reason to believe that a western PHD holder can comand the same salary as a Korean PHD holder in Korea. From what I heard, a westerner cannot get tenure at a national university.

One guy on this forum post the articles from English papers. I am pretty sure that someone did a survey comparing the salaries of foreign M.A. holders at a Korean university and Korean M.A. holders at a Korean university.
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are still talking about "experience" here, and it all depends on your real-world experience and record. Americans with Ph.D.'s get hired at Korean universities with salaries quite comparable to their American salaries. I know such people. Otherwise, how could Korea attract them?

I don't know why you're talking about "tenure." You don't intend on getting tenure anywhere. You just want to invest and then buy your property in Central or South America where you can live the easy life. Tenure in a Korean university is the last thing on your mind, so why worry about it?

I repeat: If you have the required academic or corporate experience, getting American-level salaries in Asia is quite doable. Try it. You'll wonder why you taught English so long!!
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know why you're talking about "tenure." You don't intend on getting tenure anywhere. You just want to invest and then buy your property in Central or South America where you can live the easy life. Tenure in a Korean university is the last thing on your mind, so why worry about it?


I am interesting in how the system works. This has nothing to do with what I want in the future or not. I was commenting on how I think some schools in Korea work. Maybe some universities pay for experience but there is definitly plenty that pay the same starting salary to someone whether they have ten years of experience or one.

As for moving to Central America, that may or may happen. I will invest my money anyways so that I can live a good life in the future anyways. I would like to see as much of the world as I can.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This might be true in Japan but from what I have heard, I have no reason to believe that a western PHD holder can comand the same salary as a Korean PHD holder in Korea. From what I heard, a westerner cannot get tenure at a national university.

In Japan? Yes, you can.
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Deconstructor



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimately, money shouldn't be the most important consideration when it comes to a career, especially like TEFL. It should be about having fun, and TEFL definitely provides that. Name one other profession that will allow you to travel the world and make a bit of money at the same time. This is what I did for a decade before returning to Canada.

At the end, most of us want to go home for all the obvious reasons and cliches.
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isanity



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deconstructor wrote:
Name one other profession that will allow you to travel the world and make a bit of money at the same time.


Any business involved in importing or exporting anything. Concert pianist. Soldier in a suitably aggressive army...
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Deconstructor



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isanity wrote:
Deconstructor wrote:
Name one other profession that will allow you to travel the world and make a bit of money at the same time.


Any business involved in importing or exporting anything. Concert pianist. Soldier in a suitably aggressive army...


All right!!! Now show me an EFL teacher in one of these professions!
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isanity



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 179

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deconstructor wrote:
isanity wrote:
Deconstructor wrote:
Name one other profession that will allow you to travel the world and make a bit of money at the same time.


Any business involved in importing or exporting anything. Concert pianist. Soldier in a suitably aggressive army...


All right!!! Now show me an EFL teacher in one of these professions!


Eh? EFL teachers tend to be in the TEFL business. If you mean people who avoided or fled the TEFL business for those professions, there are plenty.
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Deconstructor



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isanity wrote:
EFL teachers tend to be in the TEFL business. If you mean people who avoided or fled the TEFL business for those professions, there are plenty.


What I meant was that one could be a sailor and travel the world and make money that way but you will never find a TEFLer with the spirit of a concert pianist or a soldier (well, maybe mercenary)!
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