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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Wolf wrote:
"Is this a "girls are bad at math but good at being nurses and teachers' thing? Bases on my life experience, I doubt that girls are bad at math and boys are bad at foreign language teaching or learning."
In China it most certainly is. Man, that would drive me crazy, hearing that women are better learners of languages (even though I could come up with several examples to counter this). This penchant for the mass generalization. Everything is either black or white, not grey. |
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chinasyndrome
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: In the clutches of the Red Dragon. Erm...China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:44 am Post subject: |
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[quote="shmooj"]
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| What about in general ed? Are there predominantly more females than males and who teaches better? |
Well, dyak, look what you've started!  Shmooj made an interesting point about general education. Thinking back on it, the best teacher I ever had was a male and the worst was also a male.
The uni lecturers in my discipline tended to be male and they were without doubt the biggest bunch of self-important boring windbags I've ever had the displeasure to fail to avoid meeting. (!!!)
I've met a lot of trainers over the years (mostly business trainers) who seem to be very good at providing immediate motivation but I've often questioned whether they actually impart inspiration that lasts. How important is it to promote a love of learning and provide the tools required for further self-education?
My dad became a specialist teacher after his retirement and I recall all his students saying that he was technically excellent. Some went on to become highly technically proficient, which has in my experience often - but not always - come at a cost of poor or barely adequate 'people skills'. My sister is a primary school teacher (26 years - even though you only get 10 for murder) and while she's also technically very good I see her as being more a 'promoter of the person'.
Obviously we have to generalize because we're talking about a very large industry that effects billions of people in some way. The nicest teacher I ever had was my high school music teacher. She was great, but I'm still lousy at playing the trumpet and sax and I can't remember how to read music 'fluently'.
Technical excellence and humanity/motivation. Are each of these more the province of one sex?
Who was the best and worst teacher you ever had and what made them so? |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Gordon: Why would women be exempt from earning enough to support their family? I knew a lot of female ESL teachers - including single parents - who were worried about just that.
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Women aren't exempt, there are single parents of both sexes. That wasn't what I was referring to. However, when one parent is at home and one is in the workforce, it is the man who is usually the one in the workforce (barring unemployment situations). |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| chinasyndrome wrote: |
Who was the best and worst teacher you ever had and what made them so? |
BEST: Mr. Robinson, English Literature: One of the don't-smile-before-Christmas brigade who would send you out of the room, I kid you not, for sneezing without permission. We were terrified of him by Christmas. So, in January he released the pressure and had a class of totally respectful kids by Easter. By summer, we loved his class. Taught me a lot about teaching. Still hate "Lord of the Flies" though 
WORST: Mr. Harcourt, Geography: you'd come in the room and there he'd be, behind a newspaper with his feet on the desk. His entire teaching approach could be summarised by his regular command to "Do pages xx-xx." That was all the guidance he would give you. And, if you didn't do it he would throw a wooden board eraser at your head with deadly accuracy. He would be locked up now (I hope). He taught me a lot about teaching. Still love all aspects of geography.
Ironically these two teachers taught next door to each other at the same school. |
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Capergirl
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1232
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Wolf wrote: |
Is this a "girls are bad at math but good at being nurses and teachers" thing? Bases on my life experience, I doubt that girls are bad at math and boys are bad at foreign language teaching or learning.
The bit about teaching being "womans' work" might have something to do with imbalances "back home." |
Since the woman's job comment was mine, allow me to clarify. I was referring to the fact that this was what most people believed in years past. It's not what most believe now (including me). I've had some great teachers, male and female. I do think that some people are just plain not cut out for teaching, but it has nothing at all to do with gender.
| Wolf wrote: |
| Gordon: Why would women be exempt from earning enough to support their family? I knew a lot of female ESL teachers - including single parents - who were worried about just that. |
I am a single mom ESL teacher and yes, I am the sole "bread-winner". Although teaching ESL isn't really the most lucrative job a person could have, it pays more than many of the jobs where I live. Nonetheless, the main reason I do it is because I love it. You couldn't pay me enough to work in a hospital or a lab.
By the way, Wolf, your "girls being bad at math" analogy reminds me of when Mattel released their talking Barbie. A lot of people were surprised to pull her string and hear her say, "Math is hard!"  |
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dyak
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, this thread of yours, chinasyndrome�
Just had a thought - maybe it�s because our first �teachers� are our mothers (for the majority of people) and that�s why students (of both sexes) seem to prefer female teachers.
The best teachers I had (by a long way) were all women, but then they just happen to be teaching languages, which I loved. |
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Wolf
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Capergirl wrote: |
By the way, Wolf, your "girls being bad at math" analogy reminds me of when Mattel released their talking Barbie. A lot of people were surprised to pull her string and hear her say, "Math is hard!" |
As do I, which is why I used that particular example. I hope everyone realizes that i disagree with this line of thinking, by the way. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:38 am Post subject: |
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This thread in a way reminds me of the "women bosses in Europe" one--although this one is considerably more polite! 
I think the similarity I see is in my feeling that I can't base quality teaching on sex (meaning man/woman, of course!). I've had excellent male teachers, excellent female teachers, crappy male teachers, and crappy female teachers.
I think the factor that distinguished the excellent from the crap was their interest in teaching vs. what I saw as their desire to keep the class on task. Some of my worst teachers have in fact been language teachers (native Spanish speakers, going back to the whole native/non-native issue). They were grad students teaching undergrad language classes, and one of them really seemed to view her job as just a form of financial aid--she put no effort, no heart, nothing at all into her teaching. Our class every day was something like this: correct homework, learn new grammar structure from book, practice new grammar structure in book, get new homework assigned. At the time I had no idea that I would end up teaching a language myself, but even back then I got all sorts of ideas about what not to do as a teacher.
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