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Pronunciation Question
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: Pronunciation Question Reply with quote

YO! I have a question about how to pronounce Qatar. I am going there soom and just want to find out the correct way to say it. I hope its not a bonehead question.
Is it:
a) like 'catarrh' as in the inflamation of a mucous membrane.
b) K- tar. like the letter and erm...tar.

or another way?
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try pronouncing Qatar like the English word gutter (the American way, to sound like "gudder").
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Bindair Dundat



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put a very slight stress on the first syllable, use the a of "father" and make the r a tap. The Q is closer to g than to k.

DON'T say "cutter", as so many North Americans do...
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is pretty much one of those Arabic words that English speakers are completely unable to pronounce with any degree of similarity to accuracy. It is not cutter or gutter or Kaataar as we so often hear. If I really concentrate I can sometimes say it close enough that a Qatari might not be either offended or amused. Laughing

The problem is that the 'q' is the 'qaf' which sounds like NEITHER the English 'g' nor 'k'. The vowel sounds are very short. The 't' is quite different from any common form of the English letter 't' and the 'r' is rolled slightly or tapped.

Below I have pasted two attempts to explain the pronounciation... one from a chat board and the other from an American professor. BTW I listened to the supposed pronounciation on a dictionary site and it was not even close. But it is the way I would pronounce it here in US since if I said it correctly no one would know what I was talking about... presuming they are that rare American who keeps up with the news.

...the correct arabic pronounciation is a q but prounounced from deeper into the throat.. try it, say "qa", and then take that sound and try to say it from a little bit deeper till the sound comes from the opening of ur throat, not ur mouth. thats the correct prounounciation of that letter.. the correct pronounciation of the "t" ... should sound like "QUHTTAR". now, when u pronounce the letter "r" using the american accent, u roll ur tounge in ur mouth but it doesnt touch anything, for the arabian pronounciation, ur tounge should touch the curve of the top of ur mouth thats close to ur teeth (or the opening of the mouth). when u say it, it might sound like there is a little "d" sound b4 the actual r sound, and this is the way we say it. ...try saying it "aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr", when u try to say this, ur tongue will vibrate since its hitting the top of ur mouth..

Are you completely confused now?

And for a more formal academic explanation:

The Arabic language�particularly the colloquial dialect common in the Arabian Peninsula�features several sounds that are completely alien to native English speakers, beginning with the initial consonant in "Qatar." The "q" makes for a hard "k" sound but one with its origins deep within the throat�a poor English equivalent is the "c" in "cough." The word's first vowel sound is similar to "aw," as in "Aw, shucks!" but not nearly as heavy on the "w."

The middle "t" is perhaps the trickiest part. It is known as a velarized consonant, which means the back of the tongue must be pressed against the mouth's roof to achieve the requisite effect. The result is somewhat similar to the double "t" in "butter" but a lot more guttural. Native English speakers must train very hard to learn this trick, as our impulse when making a "t" sound is to push up the tongue's tip, rather than its aft section.

The terminal "ar" is nearly overpowered by this strong velarized consonant. If anything, it is supposed to sound like a little rumble escaping the epiglottis.

I hope that gives you a little help in not feeling guilty that you can not say it correctly.

VS
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, LaRS, aren't you reeeeeallly glad you asked?

Laughing
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hay very helpful but now I'm confused Confused thanks for the big answer veiled senitements it looks like you did a lot of wrk maybe i should take arabic lessons but when i do i always mispronuonce words like the greeting I always say " they are as i like 'em" Very Happy instead of the real one. Maybe I should just keep my gob shut! Cool
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really do all that just for Mr LaRS, but for others that may have the same question. It seemed worth the quick google and 5 minute read/copy and paste job. Cool

I do love the internets!!

And LaRS... a good way to start to know the students is to have them teach you a bit of Arabic. Lessons are good to at least learn the sound structure and alphabet before you go if you have the time... and then at least basic politeness structures. Your learning to say Qatar can give them lots of amusement. Laughing

VS
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
I didn't really do all that just for Mr LaRS, but for others that may have the same question. It seemed worth the quick google and 5 minute read/copy and paste job. Cool

I do love the internets!!

And LaRS... a good way to start to know the students is to have them teach you a bit of Arabic. Lessons are good to at least learn the sound structure and alphabet before you go if you have the time... and then at least basic politeness structures. Your learning to say Qatar can give them lots of amusement. Laughing

VS



Hay thanks young sir, I hope i can bring some joy to my students with my incompetude. You make a good point me tinky. Should I grow a beard too because maybe I will fit in more.
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sw



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might I respectfully suggest that you forget the beard and work on your syntax? Very Happy
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sw wrote:
Might I respectfully suggest that you forget the beard and work on your syntax? Very Happy


yes you might, but is syntax and beards incompatible?
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sw



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pray tell, is they?
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we at least hope that you are not teaching English?

err... Yo...

Oh... and I'm not a sir...

VS
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
Can we at least hope that you are not teaching English?

err... Yo...

Oh... and I'm not a sir...

VS


Embarassed
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Bindair Dundat



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
The result is somewhat similar to the double "t" in "butter" but a lot more guttural.


Americans don't pronounce "butter" with a double /t/, and... GUTTURAL? I wonder what THAT means. Can't find it in any of my old phonology books. Smile
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey BD...

That was written by some professor. If you note, he refers to the double "t" not double /t/, so that would suggest that he was expecting his 'murican students to know how to pronounce butter in our usual way. Cool

Actually I know what he means... and if I was hanging out in your office, I could maybe even produce it, but danged if I can explain it.

VS
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