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drewteacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: Why So Much Talk About Making A Lot of Money In Taiwan? |
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| If I earn 60,000nt, lose 20% to taxes (under 183 days first year), I'm only taking home 48,000nt. Deduct about 15,000 (Taipei) for an apartment, and that only leaves 33,000. I can make the same or more in Thailand. Even at 10% tax there's not much left. Can someone help me understand why there's so much talk about making/saving money in Taiwan? |
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dangerousapple
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Then try to make more! You can teach as many privates as you want, which can pay anywhere from NT$600 to NT$1000 or more per hour, all under the table. And if you have your heart set on living in the most expensive city in Taiwan, you'll have to get used to saving less money. |
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trukesehammer
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 168
Location: The Vatican
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Why So Much Talk About Making A Lot of Money In Taiwan? |
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| drewteacher wrote: |
| ...Can someone help me understand why there's so much talk about making/saving money in Taiwan? |
 Hi there!
Well, you certainly do ask a mighty good question and I've been thinking about it a great deal these days, now that I'm vacationing in Cambodia. And as I rode the bus to and from the cute little beach town of Sihanoukville, the thought suddenly struck me-- ummm, rather than lecture, let me see if I can reconstruct a typical budget from my life back in South Dakota & Iowa...
| Quote: |
MY SALARY (GROSS) ........$1300.00
RENT ..............................$ 250.00
FOOD ..................................95.00
KIDS' MAINTENANCE ...........300.00
TUITION .............................300.00
GASOLINE ...........................150.00
CAR INSURANCE ...................40.00
CREDIT CARD BILLS .............200.00
ENTERTAINMENT .....................20.00
TOILETRIES ............................25.00
MISC ....................................100.00
___________________________________
GRAND TOTAL EXPENSES ........1480.00 |
Keep in mind that my apartment in South Dakota was "all-utilities-paid," including cable and T1 internet. Now my kids are all grown up (19 & 21) but I still send them money now & then. Also keep in mind that we kelian de, impoverished schmucks who venture over to Taiwan often leave behind a slew of creditors, and I am no exception (in my case, I made it look like I disappered in the tsunami). So let's look at my current budget while in Taiwan...
| Quote: |
MY SALARY (BASE) .............................................NT$66,000
RENT ........................................................................$ 7,000
FOOD ........................................................................12,000
KIDS' MAINTENANCE ..................................................3,000
GASOLINE ....................................................................300
CAR INSURANCE & TAXES .........................................2,000
ENTERTAINMENT ...........................................................500
TOILETRIES ...................................................................500
TRIPS TO SEE MY HONEY IN TAINAN ............................2000
PROGRESS ON MY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRIC CAR .........2000
MISC ..............................................................................1000
_______________________________________________________________________
GRAND TOTAL EXPENSES ............................................30,300
I SAVE .....................................................................35,700 |
My apologies for the sucky math and screen formatting skills.  This is precisely why I became an English major as opposed to the more lucrative professions.  Nevertheless, if my typical compatriots live as "dangerously" as I, it becomes apparent why we're always banging the "WE SAVE BIG MONEY IN TAIWAN" gong.
Hope this helps! |
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trukesehammer
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 168
Location: The Vatican
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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One last thing...
I said it before and I'll say it again. Although it's getting tougher and tougher these days, it is still possible to do well financially in Taipei. It all depends on your preferences. If you want to live "high on the hog," dining out at the Sherwood boozing it up every chance you get, you're gonna pay for it. But if you've got a nose for saving like I do, you can still sniff out those bargains.  |
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I_is_teach_English
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Taiwan
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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He always brings a truckload of hammers with him. Just when they are needed too.
Great posts TH. You should really blow our minds and show us your budget for Cambodia. |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If I earn 60,000nt, lose 20% to taxes (under 183 days first year), I'm only taking home 48,000nt. Deduct about 15,000 (Taipei) for an apartment, and that only leaves 33,000. I can make the same or more in Thailand. Even at 10% tax there's not much left. Can someone help me understand why there's so much talk about making/saving money in Taiwan? |
When you say you can make that amount in Thailand do you mean NT$33,000 (38,000Baht) or NT$60,000 (69,000Baht)?
A starting wage for a newbie in Taiwan would be around $55,000 a month. I believe a similar person in Thailand would get somewhere between 30,000 Baht (NT$26,000) and 40,000 Baht (NT$35,000).
These are newbie wages. Those with years of Taiwan teaching under their belts can expect to earn a lot more. I'm sure the same could be said of Thailand, but I doubt if it's possible to earn the same as Taiwan (comparing two people with similar experience). |
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drewteacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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[quote="markholmes"]
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A starting wage for a newbie in Taiwan would be around $55,000 a month. I believe a similar person in Thailand would get somewhere between 30,000 Baht (NT$26,000) and 40,000 Baht (NT$35,000). |
The school outside Bangkok where I work now pays 38,000bath/month and includes a western style, large apartment with kitchen, a/c, furniture. Working illegally (as most people do here), there is no tax so I'm pocketing 38,000 every month. Now I DO NOT recommend this school (Sar*sas), but it is an example of how close savings can be between Thailand and Taiwan. |
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drewteacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="markholmes"]
| Quote: |
A starting wage for a newbie in Taiwan would be around $55,000 a month. |
But anywhere between 6,000nt-10,000nt is lost to taxes. That narrows the margin between countries considerably. |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: |
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You only lose 20% if you chose not to come before the end of June. That is a personal decision. I believe, as I remember, the tax rate is variable, but for most teachers is around 7% which is closer to NT$4000 a month on NT$55,000.
I believe, from what I've read, that you have a pretty good deal. As far as I know apartments are usually not part of the deal in Thailand. So, we are comparing a pretty good illegal deal in Thailand with an average legal deal in Taiwan.
A good deal for a relative newbie in Taiwan would be considered to be anything over NT$65,000 or 75,000 Baht. Now take 10% off that for tax and you have 67,500 Baht. I am assuming your free apartment is shared, so let's take 6,000 Baht off for accomodation outside Taipei (you did say you were outside Bangkok, right?) plus and NT$1,500 for bills. That means you are left with 60,000 Baht, which is still at least 50% more than you earn.
Plus if you work legally in Taiwan you get medical coverage and you don't have to pay or have the inconvenience of visa runs to Laos, Burma and Malaysia.
To be honest, I suspect life in Thailand may be of a better quality than Taiwan, regardless of income, and it is my belief that if wages were the same in Thailand as they are in Taiwan there would a huge shift in the number of teachers away from Taiwan to Thailand, but for now it is better to earn the money in Taiwan and take your vacations in Thailand.
Aristotle is a prime example of someone who works in Taiwan, although he seems to dislike it enormously, and then spends extended vacation sipping rum and cokes (as I recall) on the beaches of Thailand. Perhaps you should PM him. |
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drewteacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| markholmes wrote: |
You only lose 20% if you chose not to come before the end of June. That is a personal decision. I believe, as I remember, the tax rate is variable, but for most teachers is around 7% which is closer to NT$4000 a month on NT$55,000.
I believe, from what I've read, that you have a pretty good deal. As far as I know apartments are usually not part of the deal in Thailand. So, we are comparing a pretty good illegal deal in Thailand with an average legal deal in Taiwan.
A good deal for a relative newbie in Taiwan would be considered to be anything over NT$65,000 or 75,000 Baht. Now take 10% off that for tax and you have 67,500 Baht. I am assuming your free apartment is shared, so let's take 6,000 Baht off for accomodation outside Taipei (you did say you were outside Bangkok, right?) plus and NT$1,500 for bills. That means you are left with 60,000 Baht, which is still at least 50% more than you earn.
Plus if you work legally in Taiwan you get medical coverage and you don't have to pay or have the inconvenience of visa runs to Laos, Burma and Malaysia.
To be honest, I suspect life in Thailand may be of a better quality than Taiwan, regardless of income, and it is my belief that if wages were the same in Thailand as they are in Taiwan there would a huge shift in the number of teachers away from Taiwan to Thailand, but for now it is better to earn the money in Taiwan and take your vacations in Thailand.
Aristotle is a prime example of someone who works in Taiwan, although he seems to dislike it enormously, and then spends extended vacation sipping rum and cokes (as I recall) on the beaches of Thailand. Perhaps you should PM him. |
A very eloquent and well thought out reply, thanks.
Yes, the deal in Thailand is a good one, but open to everyone, regardless of experience. The apartment is not shared and utilities only amount to about 500bt. It also includes BlueCross (BuPa) Medical Insurance. It is an unusally good deal because this school has a hard time keeping people. Teachers only stay for the money, but anyone can get it.
Arriving before the end of June is not an option (in my case), so we are still looking at 20% tax. With 7 years teaching experience and a business background, I hope you are right and I will start at a higher salary, that will definately make a difference.
Of course, it would also make a huge difference if I can find a cheaper apartment within a practical (easy) commute to downtown Taipei. The apartment I'm in now is a 40 minute taxi ride. That gets old (and expensive!).
Anyway, I hope everyone's right and in the long run I end up saving money. As for standard of living, I've never been to Taipei, so I'll have to see if I like it. If not, and if the savings are what people say, I should be able to move on in a relatively short time.
Again, thanks for the helpful and thoughtful input.
-Andrew |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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An illegal job with Bupa medical coverage. Wow, that's weird.
Your standard of living (as opposed to quality of life) will likely be similar to Thailand. It is that extra 50% of salary that gets saved.
I have often heard English teachers in Thailand say that they live comfortably in Thailand, but there isn't much left to save. That is the difference with Taiwan. |
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kuberkat
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Oman
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have a plan and work to make it happen, Taiwan is the best place for a beginning TEFLER in Asia to both make money and maintain a decent standard of living. Anyone who is after maximizing their income should avoid Taipei, since the cost of living (and the financial temptations) are much higher there. Also, if you are in Taiwan for financial reasons, do make use of opportunities to earn extra, but not to the point where you burn yourself out. Also, it really helps to put your savings out of reach as soon as you get paid. Most schools pay in cash, and I suspect this practice has kept many teachers on that little island far longer than they planned, and not for the love of it either. If you are not financially disciplined, find a way to keep your grubby little mitts of a substantial part of your salary. All the better if it's somewhere it can grow while you sleep. |
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drewteacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| kuberkat wrote: |
| since the cost of living (and the financial temptations) are much higher there. |
In what way are there more 'temptations' than other places? |
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I_is_teach_English
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| kuberkat wrote: |
| Also, it really helps to put your savings out of reach as soon as you get paid. Most schools pay in cash, and I suspect this practice has kept many teachers on that little island far longer than they planned, and not for the love of it either. If you are not financially disciplined, find a way to keep your grubby little mitts of a substantial part of your salary. All the better if it's somewhere it can grow while you sleep. |
So true! I'm always in the bank the day after payday wiring the money I need to back to my offshore account. Having a large wad of NT$1,000 notes can be very tempting to blow on a night out or the latest gadget! |
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