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Man of Steel
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Amsterdam
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 Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Kevinyam,
Are you replying to my posts or tsotsa's?
The official language on Trinidad and Tobago is English. So for purposes of getting a visa, that girl that you speak of obviously meets the requirements. Accent or no accent. (I�m assuming she had a BA).
I don't want to sound cynical here but I don't think that quality is NOVA's main concern when they refuse non-natives (or accept natives with strong accents). NOVA (and the other major language schools) have a pre-screening process where they check first whether you meet the Japanese WV criteria. If you do not, you get rejected. Simple as that. (if you want an example of such a pre-screening process, go to the Berlitz website and do their "eligibility test". Put in "Belgium" under nationality and see how fast you get rejected. They will still think you suitable to teach English in other countries however). I am not saying that NOVA would automatically accept me if only I were American. I�m saying that being Belgian (and having a Belgian BA) automatically disqualifies me to work for the likes of NOVA.
I am not being critical of NOVA here. It is a large organization; they are involved in thousands of visa applications a year I am sure. It makes business sense for them to have a conservative interpretation of the rules.
My best bet as a non-native would be to go for small schools in out of way places. They are the ones most likely to take chances. That�s where my thinking stands now.
MOS |
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Man of Steel
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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PAULH,
You say that the "foreign" in "foreign language" refers to the idea that the language is foreign to the teacher. Hmm, didn't read it that way. I read it as a "language foreign to Japan", i.e., foreign to the students.
The visa rules refer twice to the concept of a foreign language.
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In cases where the applicant is to engage in instruction at a vocational school ("Kakushugakko") or an educational institution equivalent to it in facilities and curriculum or in cases where the applicant is to engage in instruction at other school with a capacity other than a "teacher", the following conditions are to be fulfilled.
However (a) is to be fulfilled in cases where the applicant is to engage in instruction at a vocational school or an educational institution equivalent to it in facilities and curriculum which is established to give the children with the status of residence "Diplomat" or "Official" mentioned in Annexed Table 1 (1) or "Dependent" mentioned in Annexed Table 1 (4) education of primary, junior and senior high school in foreign language.
a. The applicant must have graduated from or completed a college or acquired equivalent education, or must hold a license to teach the subject that he or she intends to teach in Japan.
b. When the applicant is planning on teaching a foreign language, he or she must have acquired education in that language for at least 12 years. When the applicant is going to teach other subjects, he or she must have at least 5 years' teaching experience in that subject.
The applicant should receive no less salary than a Japanese national would receive for comparable work.
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In the first reference, "foreign language" seems to mean any language other than Japanese. I don't think any reference (explicit or implicit) is made here to the relation between the teacher and the language taught. Normally, I would think, in these types of documents, key terms keep their meaning throughout the text.
That said, I think your interpretation makes sense. It certainly clarifies a number of other things that I thought were unclear about the rules. Question to you: is this strictly your interpretation or do you know that this is how the Japanese authorities interpret it? If you know, then there is no discussion, clearly.
I have asked other people before, in previous threads. You may be aware of it. Let me ask you directly PAULH: do you personally know any non-natives who made it (or did not make it) as English teachers in Japan? I would LOVE to hear from people in my situation.
Thxs
MOS |
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Shion
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Right,
So... After reading rules over and over again on that website and following this topic for a couple of days -
oops, so sorry, I haven't introduced myself yet. My first post here... I look forward to joining you in Japan next year. I went and got myself hired and I'll be teaching kids (you can probably guess who I'll be working for now)
- it'd seem to me that totsa could obtain either visa.
But with that said, I've been following other topics discussing what a "native speaker" is. I feel that many people here have misunderstood the concept of a native speaker, or the term is being used with a different meaning in the rules.
We also shouldn't forget that all we have access to is a translation of the rules (what seems to be a fair one, but... I guess I may be picky).
As I understand the situation, if totsa wants a humanities visa, he doesn't necessarily need to show evidence of 12 years of English schooling - the requirement is certainly not in the rules for obtaining that type of visa. Although, since ultimately granting a visa is up to the discretion of the relevant authorities, they might ask... but in that case, shouldn't the fact that English is an official language in Malta be enough proof?
If they refuse to grant him a visa after that, then I'd say they simply don't like him and that's the end of the story. In my experience applying for stuff, if you can make people like you, then you're in as long as you meet the minimum requirements (and the 12-year requirement is only for the instructor visa).
At any rate, I know a central american girl who's working for Aeon. She doesn't have a passport from any English speaking country. Honestly speaking, I think totsa has a high chance of success for getting a visa if he manages to get hired.
Speaking of getting hired, totsa, it may be helpful for you to have an audio resume online. If recruiters can hear your speech they'll usually be convinced that you're indeed a native speaker. A few will choose to interview you even if they know you're not from one of the six major English speaking countries.
Cheers and good luck,
Shion |
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The Dutchman
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Osaka
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| I am not saying that NOVA would automatically accept me if only I were American. I�m saying that being Belgian (and having a Belgian BA) automatically disqualifies me to work for the likes of NOVA. |
Hi! Another newbie here.. I've recently been hired by NOVA even though I am officially Dutch and have a Dutch university degree. I am a native speaker of English because I lived in the U.S. from the age of 3 until the age of 18 and received all my schooling there. My accent is neutral American with no foreign inflection (well, maybe a bit of Australian since I've been Down Under for the past 11 months).
I didn't feel discriminated for a second! In fact, the NOVA recruiters were very positive about my international background and I think it's one the reasons why they decided to hire me (they seem to be most afraid of new teachers not being able to handle the shock of moving to a new country).
After I had signed the contract I did have to provide proof of my schooling in the U.S., but this seems normal for the visa-application.
For the geographically challenged: my native country Holland is next to Belgium  |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I work at my other job with an Indian and an Israeli, one of which has her visa processed here. Neither is a native speaker nor had 12 years of education in English. So I think it really depends, but certainly showing you meet MOFA's guidelines should make it easier to 'logically' make your case (though that doesn't always fly here)  . |
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