|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Owsley
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: vikdk response |
 |
|
| it seems you are from the school thought that likes to blame the sins of the father on the child....don't hate the playa...hate the game...i don't know what that last one means...but the kids today think it's jive!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| it seems you are from the school thought that likes to blame the sins of the father on the child |
no way my friend - but since there is no father or son in the case of Kid Castle just the question of collective responsibility for apparent sins against FT's - then we'd be much better off discussing what a chain organisation is all about - especially in regard to what seems to be an appaling breakdown in professional standards http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=42643&start=30[/url]
To make my argument easier to visualise lets take the following example -
that astute poster KES points out in another thread - its pretty unfair to blame all men for the abusive actions of a minority (the errant action of one chain school doesn't mean all of the chain is rotten).
But what if an on-duty police officer abused a woman - regardless of the personal guilt of this man then the policeforce itself couldn't avoid being discredited and shamed as an organisation - how can such a sadist be vetted and allowed to serve etc etc . If the police did nothing - even tried to distance themselves from this act (a silent nothing to do with us type attitude) - well just imagine the public derision - how could we take that organisation seriously.
Sons and fathers and sin  - shizer man you work for a chain - collective standards and responsibility - no wonder your posts are met with so much derision when you all can do is serve up hollow platitudes in the face of very serious allegations. All your posts seem to focus on distancing your section of Kid Castle from the rest of the organisation - you have broken the chain - surely Kid Castle, as a company which takes responsiblity for any actions carried out in its name, has been further weakened in the eyes of any thinking reader:!:
Okay Kid Castle should hardly be regarded as a moral bastion akin to any responsible police-force. But shizer if you still expect those potential FT's to come knocking on your door for work then maybe a wee bit of evidence of some decencency in this company wouldn't go amiss. So lets see if you can answer these questions-
1. is your company aware of the postings here about Kid Castle - are they investigating the allegations 
2. How does the word Chain-school apply to Kid Castle - are any collective standards applied within this organisation
3. last but not least (not a question, but interesting anyways) -Try listing a few reasons for working for this company - your former posts have been rather empty of them |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Owsley
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:31 am Post subject: blah blah blah..back at ya vikdk |
|
|
my company treats its teachers well
they are good people
they work hard
they care about the students
we don't hire negitive people like you
our teachers like their jobs, the school, the students, and the people they work with
we try to offer more than what other schools offer
we try to improve the quality of the school, both in the areas of what we offer our students and how we work with our teachers
we are always looking for new ways to better our company
etc etc etc
go ahead and slam the idea of chain schools as much as you want. we are a part of that chain but we try our best to be better. you don't know me or the people i work with so all of your talk is just that talk it means nothing in the context of how we do business.
if you think that i'm here to defend how china and how it's chain schools do business you're wrong. I am only concerned with our school and how we are viewed... and i realize that we will always be viewed in some kind of negitve way due to the company who's name we use. what i can do and what is important is letting people know that our school is a viable option, that you can find a good with us. that's it that's all. If you want change you have to act. and that's what i've been doing for the last year. It may be on a small scale but it's a start and its working. It's easy to talk and shoot your mouth off. but by you sitting here and having a big hissy fit over the business practices of Chinese you in effect do nothing, change nothing. if thats what makes feel like a big boy then keep doing it, just remember that by speading your XPD you are only holding back the people that are looking for change
and you are not part of the solution....you are part of the problem....
you breed XPD...
excuse me....i need to take a shower..... you make me feel dirty |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
how do you relate the following -
| Quote: |
my company treats its teachers well
they are good people
they work hard
they care about the students
we don't hire negitive people like you
our teachers like their jobs, the school, the students, and the people they work with
we try to offer more than what other schools offer
we try to improve the quality of the school, both in the areas of what we offer our students and how we work with our teachers
we are always looking for new ways to better our company
etc etc etc |
with regard to your utter silence on those other very pertinent questions I asked - if you have forgotten the questions here they are again
1. is your company aware of the postings here about Kid Castle - are they investigating the allegations see-
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=42643&start=30
2. How does the word Chain-school apply to Kid Castle - are any collective standards applied within this organisation
Lets see if a refreshing bath can help you come up with some suitable answers - or will it be another no comment guv reply
You know if I got you (supposedly an influental insider) to actually bring this matter up with your management I would be doing a lot more than remaining silent - and thinking - well this is just the way it is  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BlakeS
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Xian
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Re: blah blah blah..back at ya vikdk |
|
|
| Owsley wrote: |
my company treats its teachers well
they are good people
they work hard
they care about the students
we don't hire negitive people like you
our teachers like their jobs, the school, the students, and the people they work with
we try to offer more than what other schools offer
we try to improve the quality of the school, both in the areas of what we offer our students and how we work with our teachers
we are always looking for new ways to better our company
etc etc etc
go ahead and slam the idea of chain schools as much as you want. we are a part of that chain but we try our best to be better. you don't know me or the people i work with so all of your talk is just that talk it means nothing in the context of how we do business.
if you think that i'm here to defend how china and how it's chain schools do business you're wrong. I am only concerned with our school and how we are viewed... and i realize that we will always be viewed in some kind of negitve way due to the company who's name we use. what i can do and what is important is letting people know that our school is a viable option, that you can find a good with us. that's it that's all. If you want change you have to act. and that's what i've been doing for the last year. It may be on a small scale but it's a start and its working. It's easy to talk and shoot your mouth off. but by you sitting here and having a big hissy fit over the business practices of Chinese you in effect do nothing, change nothing. if thats what makes feel like a big boy then keep doing it, just remember that by speading your XPD you are only holding back the people that are looking for change
and you are not part of the solution....you are part of the problem....
you breed XPD...
excuse me....i need to take a shower..... you make me feel dirty |
It seems you are in harsh denial - on the brink of lying - about what really happens at these schools. And honestly, given what some people have had to go through, your "joking" and "vendictive" approach to the matter isn't appreciated. I am not over-exagerrating by saying that some FT's have almost lost their lives.
It is not BUSINESS PRACTICE to assault your staff. It is not a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE to have your life threatened.
These .... things .... happen. Accept that fact. Your idea of Eden within your organization doesn't exist.
You do not need to concern yourself with not wanting to interview people with a negative opinion towards Kidcastle. We have this opinion through experience and *know better*. This negativity is not a byproduct of other people's experiences....it is of our own. Showing *you*, whether you are prepared at this point to admit it or not, that Kidcastle is run by some seriously bad people.
If you would like to set yourself apart - please do. But I would also recommend a change in company name. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But I would also recommend a change in company name |
The name itself, Kid's Castle, makes my furry arms crawl. Little twerps high atop throwns mended out of the broken backs of FTs foolish enough to have looked up from their place in the chain gang, and perhaps thought to themselves "there has got to be a better gig in China than entertaining these kings and queens".
I worked at a Wonderland many years ago in Korea. That label, though equally embarassing for placement on a resume, is a little more palatable. The particular branch where I once worked indeed had many wonders -- an FT who broke into the school with a juicy girl on the weekend just to shag in the "Bedroom" classroom, for example, and many opportunities for other FTs to come to work loaded with the only complaint from students being "you smell like my daddy".
Spending a year in the kiddy dungeon sounds too terrifying to ponder. I recall an amusing previous thread about a/the Kid Castle in Tianjin -- FTs in scrubby servant uniforms mind dead and without response to the beatings from little princesses. Might be worthwhile to peruse it again.
If one likes the prospect of entertaining little ones, you can find three times the pay and at least twice the savings at a hagwon in Korea.
Plus, you can administer corporal punishment on the penninsula to boot!! (the boys respected me much more after barrages of noogies) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here it is -
| Quote: |
We were contacted by a recruiter called �Anne� who offered us employment for the Kid Castle kindergarten branch in Tianjin.
The school was interested in our candidature and sent us a contract which we signed and returned, concluding our employment. They then mentioned that they required a one week �training� period in Shanghai. We saw it as a good opportunity for us to see the workings of this �famous� chain in China.
The recruiter told us that everything was taken care of and gave us a contact number. But, surprise! When we arrived in Shanghai, the hotel wasn�t paid as we were told. This first miscommunication was to set the tone for our entire �Kid Castle� experience.
In the end, we had to pay for it.
About the training: in short, we were shocked to see the absurd �teaching methods�, the level of the learners and the quality of the foreign teachers.
We soon realized that the training was, in fact, an excuse to meet us.
The people we met there informed us that Kid Castle uses the "TPR" (Total Physical Response) method of teaching throughout their branches and explained the TPR intricacies. We immediately detected ridiculousness and let out a long mental sigh.
TPR is a system of constantly using physical gestures as mnemonic devices associated with words. �Apple� is taught drawing an apple with your hands, �me� and �you� represent hands pressed to your chest and arms stretched outwards, respectively. The idea is to always use these movements during speech.
This is a perfectly valid method for working with children who suffer from mental retardation or serious learning difficulties, but we consider forcing a normal child to recognize vocabulary connected with those movements is a big mistake.
We�ll give you a funny and sad example: while we waiting to observe a class and a boy came to us and said: �Hello! My name is� How are you?�
He could not resist using TPR and ended up gesticulating like a madman while saying this simple sentence.
Unfortunately, this is not an affliction reserved to Kid Castle learners. All around China people feel they must wave to you when saying �Hello�, even when standing in front of you. Kid Castle just encourages this laughable habit.
The appearance of the foreigner teaching the class was ridiculous: sandals, dirty feet, shorts and a school t-shirt (the school insists t-shirts with their logo to be worn by foreign teachers). The t-shirt was very old, with the logo washed away, had a few holes in the fabric and dirty.
Another very unpleasant impression was given by the children�s behaviour during the class, and especially during the break while talking with their foreign teacher.
The children (mixed ages, one of them obviously mentally retarded. In China, we had repeatedly observed children with serious mental problems are put into the same class as normal children. Chinese parents do not consider that their child is a bit� different. And nobody from the school dares say anything. The result? Easy to imagine.) were shouting and running, demonstrating an absolute lack of discipline and respect for their teacher.
During a game, certain children didn�t know how to behave if they were not the winners. A girl simply hit the foreigner. The foreigner teacher didn�t even react. To make matters worse, we were told that that class was of the most disciplined!
At the end of this "training"week, we were asked to give a demonstration class. Not in a class, but in front of a school representative. It was quite ridiculous.
We were expecting to give a demo in front of a class. That is a real demonstration of teaching ability.
After the training/orientation we went to Tianjin.
When we arrived and saw the so-called apartment they expected us to live in, we got scared. When we arrived at the building, we were hesitant even to enter. The staircase was packed with objects and the walls were slick with oil/grease or some other black substance we could not identify. There was a layer of dust and dirt everywhere. Also, it was located in an area with many poor people and put our safety at risk.
We simply could not touch the door handles. We don�t even want to try to describe the bed and the bathroom� a cradle of infection and filth�
We insisted to be sent to a hotel until the next day when we could begin looking for an apartment. After visiting a few places, we accepted one.
We went to the school for two weeks to watch demonstration classes and get used to the TPR.
After two weeks, they simply told us to look for another school and they gave us ten days to vacate the apartment.
We didn�t even start to teach, we only gave a 10 minute demonstration class in front of the Chinese assistants and a non-native foreign teacher (who was making enormous grammar mistakes) and a few children.
The next day (August the 16th, 2004), we were told that the kids and the parents who saw us (how?! the parents were not even peeping over the windows or through key holes!) prefer the other couple (we have met another couple one of the days). So, we came to the conclusion that the school invited two couples with the intention of choosing one!
They finally admitted that we were there �by mistake�, and that they were expecting another couple� Before being quite brave and admitting this, they had to serve us the traditional Chinese meal: dumplings with lies. "The children and the parents didn�t like you!"
We told them to be more inventive because this was too ridiculous.
Less than two weeks to vacate the apartment. They didn�t pay us for the two weeks in Tianjin and the week we spent in Shanghai.
� imagine the hassle of finding a school so quickly.
The children were subject to massive and unacceptable grammar and pronunciation mistakes.
� look to your pictures
� are you ready? no. why no?
� why it�s not?
� why you forgot?
� choose any of this animals
� if it more that one
� today, we gonna study
� what do you say?
� where are the Oscar and the ox?
� can the Tom fly?
� who is winner?
� where is the Oscar?
(foreign teacher)
� candy say
� who have?
� you will look at teacher
� ax (n.a. for �ask�!) me what�s your name
� candy prepare a�
� remember song?
� you sit that chair?
� but you not say ready
� now will stop
� Candy say you should sit baby chair
� because Cindy speak loudly
� listen to tape
(Candy)
� we gonna play a game
� we need two team
� how many student in the classroom?
� team b got two star
� we have 3 time to guess
� you have only one time
(Sina)
If you are expecting to work in a professional environmet, look elsewhere than Kid Castle.
At least, this is our opinion |
Shanghai doesn't come out too good in this account |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
What does come out is that some FT can have success where other fail ...
The process of getting a good job and keeping it in China is one of many aspects..luck, savvy, negotiation skills, and talent plays into the process...
The one thing I noticed is the tone of this experience led all the way back to the posters first encounter..if they had felt something was going afoul..then a flight may be in order..the Chinese will let you submit yourself to an approval process..but remember..when signing a contract before the fact of introduction there is always a chance that they will not like you... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| What does come out is that some FT can have success where other fail ... |
this thread has nothing to do with Ft success or failure - but has something very much to do with suspected substandard conditions found within the Kid Castle organisation.
For example - in the Tianjin account - one may want to question the attitudes and interpretation of the author towards the events that where going on around them - but what can't be disguised is the apparent sub-standard treatment they recieved from Kid Castle - treatment that was bellow par regardless of whether they were suitable or unsuitable candidates for the Job in question 
another important point in this post is the link between shanghai and a franchise - if the link is as solid as the post suggests - then our friend Owsley and his posts that distance the Shanghai office from all that is bad at Kid castle - seem even stranger |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The process of getting a good job and keeping it in China is one of many aspects..luck, savvy, negotiation skills, and talent plays into the process... |
A shame that when it comes to acquiring and retaining ESL positions in China, talent ranks last.
A banal and underrated a thing as teaching English in China: only now has it dawned on me as being such a complex undertaking. My years in Korea at $2500 CDN a month just blew by... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
