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Learning Kanji...the widely vaunted Remembering the Kanji...
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Learning Kanji...the widely vaunted Remembering the Kanji... Reply with quote

As someone who is most likely going to Japan next year I am at once intimidated and simultaneously excited about getting started learning the Kanji....tell me is James Heisig's Book Remembering the Kanji worth the money and as good as so many people say it is? Can you really learn the Kanji as quickly as proposed in this book and by Amazon reviewers? Thanks for the info...
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Learning Kanji...the widely vaunted Remembering the Kanj Reply with quote

Deicide wrote:
As someone who is most likely going to Japan next year I am at once intimidated and simultaneously excited about getting started learning the Kanji....tell me is James Heisig's Book Remembering the Kanji worth the money and as good as so many people say it is? Can you really learn the Kanji as quickly as proposed in this book and by Amazon reviewers? Thanks for the info...


No. It has lots of silly ways of remembering kanji. it involves translating bakc into Englich and back again. Confused i think you should learn a language in the same language not your own one. That's just my two yen though. Wink
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kitano



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Heisig Reply with quote

I think it can be very useful for some people and I'm working my way through it but when you finish you don't 'know' all the kanji. In my experience one book never lets you 'know' everything. But if you race thought it before you come to Japan you have a good base to learn from your environment but you are still going to have to study a lot more before you can read and write. It will just give you a big head start.
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shuize



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd heard about it, so I glanced at it when I ran across it in the bookstore. My admittedly brief review led me to the conclusion that it was dumb.

The book I recommend for kanji study is: A Guide to Reading & Writing Japanese. It's not perfect either, but I've seen it advertised used on Amazon for about two dollars.

Sorry, I posted before double checking. $1.30.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0804802262/sr=8-1/qid=1157802223/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8421612-7028662?ie=UTF8&s=books
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuize wrote:
I'd heard about it, so I glanced at it when I ran across it in the bookstore. My admittedly brief review led me to the conclusion that it was dumb.



You said it boy!
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Wow... Reply with quote

Like a Rolling Stone wrote:
shuize wrote:
I'd heard about it, so I glanced at it when I ran across it in the bookstore. My admittedly brief review led me to the conclusion that it was dumb.



You said it boy!


You are really tall...
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Wow... Reply with quote

Deicide wrote:
Like a Rolling Stone wrote:
shuize wrote:
I'd heard about it, so I glanced at it when I ran across it in the bookstore. My admittedly brief review led me to the conclusion that it was dumb.



You said it boy!


You are really tall...



Thankyou. You are very grey and brooding.
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canuck



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Basic Kanji Books are excellent.


Basic Kanji Book I


Basic Kanji Book II


Free website that someone made about the books: http://webjapanese.com/kanji/


And the White Rabbit Press kanji cards:



All these are found on amazon or all bookstores in Japan.
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Like a Rolling Stone



Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck wrote:
I think the Basic Kanji Books are excellent.


Basic Kanji Book I


Basic Kanji Book II


Free website that someone made about the books: http://webjapanese.com/kanji/


And the White Rabbit Press kanji cards:



All these are found on amazon or all bookstores in Japan.


Good Osusume Canuck!
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people do well with Remembering The Kanji. Some don't. I couldn't wrap my brain around many of Heisig's definitions and imagery. You can download a lot of the book for free, in case you want to preview it.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
Some people do well with Remembering The Kanji. Some don't. I couldn't wrap my brain around many of Heisig's definitions and imagery. You can download a lot of the book for free, in case you want to preview it.



As some one who has learnt about 1000 of the suckers everyone looks for shortcuts, the short answer is THERE AREN'T ANY.


Japanese students spend about 12 years learning the basic Toyo Kanji before they finish high school. Zzonk miles might chip in later but the only way is to write them out 20 times and memorise the various readings (some have 3 or 4 different readings per Kanji depending on how its used with other Kanji, fun eh....). Helsig seems to make it unnecessarily difficult for the raw beginner.

Probably the best way to learn is the way that Japanese first and second graders learn, with the first grade Kanji, second grade and so on. In the first year kids learn about 50 or 100 kanji. Do what the locals do.

Each Japanese Kanji is broken down into radicals- left radical, right, upper and lower. Once you learn the basic radicals and their various root meanings it becomes easier to learn others and recognise them when you see them. Some radicals mean 'wood', 'water', 'moon', 'metal' etc. it makes it easier to learn Kanji when you can recognise the radicals.

Just my two cents worth.

PS the book mentioned was the first Kanji book I ever used in Japan. It lists the kanji, the on-yomi the kun-yomi (Japanese and Chinese readings there is a difference you will learn) the number of strokes and how to read and write Kanji. It takes time you have to memorise and you have to use them. NO other way.

Fancy glossy books are no good if you give up after two weeks because you lose interest or its 'too difficult'. Its not difficult, you just have to learn them. 120 million Japanese do, including my seven year old son.


Last edited by PAULH on Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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shuize



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulh's post reminds me of something another foreign student once told me about learning kanji when I first came to Japan: "Only the first thousand are hard. After that it's easy." At the time I thought he was messing with me. But I've since learned there was a lot of truth in what he said.

As noted, there are no shortcuts. The text I recommended above is basically just a list of 2,000 general use characters with common combinations. If you're serious about learning how to read Japanese, sooner or later you're going to have to set down and memorize them. Which is why I think it's sort of silly to spend a lot of money on glossy and gimmicky textbooks when the basic information is available for less.
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Deicide



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject: soooo... Reply with quote

PAULH wrote:
Glenski wrote:
Some people do well with Remembering The Kanji. Some don't. I couldn't wrap my brain around many of Heisig's definitions and imagery. You can download a lot of the book for free, in case you want to preview it.



As some one who has learnt about 1000 of the suckers everyone looks for shortcuts, the answer is THERE ARENT ANY.


Japanese students spend about 12 years learning the basic Toyo Kanji at high school. Zzonk miles might chip in later but the only way is to right them out and memorise them. Helsig seems to make it unnecessarily difficult for the raw beginner.

Probably the best way to learn is the way that Japanese first and second graders learn, with the first grade Kanji, second grade and so on. In the first year kids learn about 50 or 100 kanji. Do what the locals do.

Japanese Kanji are broken down into radicals- left radical, right, upper and lower. Once you learn the basic radicals and their various meanings it becomes easier to learn others and recognise them when you see them. Some mean 'wood', 'water' 'moon' 'metal' etc. it makes it easier to learn Kanji when you can recognise the radicals.

Just my two cents worth.



Just hard work I guess like everything else in life that is worth learning...there never really are any shortcuts...for anything....oh well.... Wink
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ghostrider



Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it helps to learn kanji while you are also learning new vocabulary. I also think it helps to mix and match methods. Drilling alone doesn't work well (for me at least), neither did Heisig. Heisig gives you a foundation to start with, but it takes a lot of time and constant refreshing. You have to make up and remember a unique story for each kanji character. It doesn't work out well much of the time. [Edit: I didn't word that well. Overall, I like the Heisig method. I think it works well to get to know the meaning of the kanji first, so when you're learning vocabulary, it fits in easily. And it's helpful if you don't know the word for something, you can at least recognize or write the kanji for it.]

Last edited by ghostrider on Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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canuck



Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Review, review and review is the key to memorizing kanji. The books and flash cards I mentioned above are excellent.

@Deicide, I was hoping you could get a bigger avatar. Rolling Eyes
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