Job Discussion Forums

[gaijinalways]

Got you, though there are problems with things that the Japanese have in theory agreed to change (UN decree on discrimination ring a bell?), but the mindset here still seems predominantly very, very local .

luck box posted

[japanman]

Two things have come to mind from reading the thread of this.
Firstly, I disagree a million percent that anyone here is a guest . But if we are guests, whose guest are we? Who is the host of this grand party?
Also, I think Japan will never become a multi-cultural society because if you look in the whole world, very very few places are. the only ones that come to mind are USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Holland and possibly the Mailaysian penninsula and Hong Kong. Please correct me if I am wrong there. Therefore, there are so few of these multi-cultural societies in the world to start with, Japan isn't excatly on its way to becoming one.
There is also a difference between multi-cultural and multi-rcial which makes this thread all the more complex.

[luckbox]

[japanman]

Ofcourse i don't think that I have a right to dictate or influence how things operate until citizenship is granted.
My home country (UK) is also an island counrty with its own traditions etc, thsi puts it very far apart from USA, Canada etc, that have had very different histories. So, I think that British people can understand this even more than others. I know that my visa is not a right, i7ve been given it because of the demand for the service I provide but the minute you think of yourself as a guest, you are limiting your scope and opportunities. As I said before, whose guest? My neighbour? the bloke who runs the local beer shop? Certainly not.

[gaijinalways]

Interesting thoughts, multiracial versus multicultural. I would think it could be blend of both, though currently Japan is neither (and certainly not in a hurry to be either ).

As we have tried to point out earlier, non-citizens do have rights in most (if not all countries). We do have some rights here, but I would state that they are far less than in many other developed countries. Of course there are exceptions, and also some things are not available to even citizens. For example, even citizens in Germany need permission from the government to move.

I would further state that the differences for rights and treatment of non-citizens here is far greater than any other place I have lived in so far. The one exception was in HK where the colonists had a much better deal than the locals ( and certainly better than I had, I being an Englishmen only by blood, not by passport ).!

[Glenski]

You are the "guest" of the Japanese Ministry of Justice so long as you hold a visa to reside here. Period. Define the word any way you like, but you are not a Japanese citizen, so what else would you call yourself that has a different overall meaning?

visitor?
non-resident?
non-citizen?
expatriate?

It's all the same. The MOJ allows you to stay much like your Aunt Gladys or buddy with a spare sofa allows you to stay and do certain (limited) things.

[Symphany]

I can't see why all this talk is going on about being guests of the country. Its obvious that right now most foreigners are officially treated as guests within the nation. I believe the original poster's question was if foriegn workers/potential permanent residents/potential citizens would ever be treated as anything but guests in Japan -- the "but" being a better status, like the permanent resident status that can be achieved in many Western nations like the United States or the UK. Its quite obvious that many of the foreigners here (I hate that word but for lack of a better one) have picked up a traditional Japanese mindset which is to not try to recognize and then solve a problem, but rather to attack the person who has pointed it out. I think for those who have no problems with the ultra conservatives who tell you that you shouldn't even be here, or if you are you should at least shut up and be useful, that's your prerogative, but I can't understand why you're posting to a board that is supposed to be there for help and guidance to others. Just my opinion.

[japanman]

We appear to have gone off the topic in what is a great topic.
I just think that the words and phrases you use to describe yourself have a huge effect on your self-identity and your future plans.


If you compare the UK and Japan and see why one has become a mult-cultural society and one hasn't. The main reason being because of the UKs bloody and cruel colonial history. Apart from the recent influx of EU citizens, the majority of immigrants into the UK came from the colonies, which were handed back over a long period of time. Most of the handbacks came as a result of protest but not full scale war. thus, you have the excistence of the British commonwealth. So, it's Britain's own historical path that has led to the amzing mix of people in London, Manchester etc. there is no such Japanese commonwealth ofcourse. A completely different historical path has occured.

Britain used to have a very us and them mentality like Japan and so do many other European countries, Japan is by no means the exception but you are looking at an extreme case.


I also think that it completely wrong to think that multi-culturalism is about dictating to others what to do. Multi-culturalism is about growing and naturaly expanding the nations knowledge of humanity, no replacing. Keeping strongly what you already have and adding on. japanese have done this for the last 130 years themselves by going to Europe and learning things and bringing them back. Maybe now this has been done so much, it is hopefully time for the real people from these countries to start adding on things and hopefully never replacing.