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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| This seems to be getting away from my question, which is more related to the OP's post, namely, what was the real purpose of the raid? |
It's pretty simple to answer that question by asking the police in Japanese. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris21 wrote: |
It might also be the most important in a macro sense, but I'd say most Japanese in Japan can function quite fine without ever speaking a word. You said that salarymen and police SHOULD speak English because of the great likelihood that they'd need it. Can you explain why? Most Japanese salarymen and police have no contact with foreigners. Why do you feel it necessary for all of them to speak English.
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This is correct. The majority Japanese can live a great life without knowing English or being able to communicate in it. They can go about their lives and that is that. However, English would open up some avenues, depending on the job, and probably make traveling more of an independant adventure, instead of hanging on to the crutch they have called, "a package tour."
Just like most of Canada functions fine without knowing anyFrench, despite being forced to study it in school, even though it's one of the official languages of Canada. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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canuck posted
| Quote: |
| It's pretty simple to answer that question by asking the police in Japanese. |
Actually, I am sure they asked the police, and obviously didn't get a good answer, as there doesn't seem to be a good one. Hence, why I am asking Canuck or anyone else that wants to explain the raids in logical terms.
In defense of the police in Japan, most of the raids I have heard about have been for drug or underage drinkers related reasons. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I've only waded through 3.5 pages but feel I need to write something.
1. English is not the second language of Japan. There IS no second official language. Period. If someone claims there is, it must be an offshoot of Ainu or Okinawan.
2. Why do Japanese study (not learn) English for 6 years? Not to speak it, but to pass college entrance exams. Period. They are horribly weak in conversational English, which is one main reason why native English speakers are employed in Japan.
3. Business English is not police English. Business English is taught to corporations, not to the police force.
4. Despite the above, I agree that police should have a higher level of English under their belts in order to communicate with many types of foreigners, since English is widely spoken in the world. One cannot expect them to be perfectly fluent, however, simply because of the plethora of people who visit that do not have a chance to learn English in their home countries, or here, or that have a NEED to.
5. My biggest problem with the topic here comes from the initial post. Look at it. Someone has already written that it is terribly one-sided. I will go one step further. I don't know diddly about Hiroshima's nightlife, and it would behoove someone (the OP or the author of the quoted article) to explain it. Why? Here's my dilemma in understanding things:
* Is that establishment a known target for illegal aliens?
* Is that establishment regularly raided (not "invaded")? [Twice in a month suggests that the place Cover is, but not necessarily the DJ's event. I suspect that the event was an "innocent" bystander, but perhaps for a good reason, which we don't know.]
* Illegal aliens can be here for any number of illegal reasons -- overstaying, falsifying visa applications, drug or human trafficking, etc. What exactly was the purpose of the raid?
* The OP wrote that "what appeared to be 3 American (maybe) inspectors" were there. Why did it appear that way? Were they Causacians? Did they have American flags pasted to their arms? Moreover, just what did they do during this raid? I don't think it was made clear, so just what was their purpose in showing up?
* I think the whole article was badly written, but it was not meant to be a stellar piece of journalism anyway. Look at this statement:
| Quote: |
| The length of the `inspection` was also unreasonable. Despite the large number of police and officials present, they worked at a snails pace. |
Exactly what pace is prescribed for raids on illegal aliens? And, does the writer realize that Japanese people work slowly in such official matters anyway, whether in police raids, or office politics, or making any group decisions?
*Rather than complain about the raid and its relation to aliens or not, I think the main focus should be simply on the por way in which the raid was conducted. To trust a foreigner to say whether he/she has already been asked to show certain info, and to allow inappropriate things to be written on police documents clearly shows how poorly the police were prepared to do their job. At one point in reading the article, I wondered if they were even real police and immigration officers, or yakuza in disguise.
So, should foreigners living in Japan learn Japanese? Yes, but if you are here early in a stay, you cannot be expected to be fluent. That takes many years.
Should Japanese police learn more English? Yes, but don't expect them to need perfectly fluency. They should perhaps learn other languages, but that begs the question of how many, and then we can compare other countries' police forces' multilingual abilities, too, before we throw stones.
Should police even make raids? I would have to say that if it is warranted, yes. But, we don't know about that in this case. I find this point a main sore spot.
The OP wrote:
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| This is an event concept which I have worked really hard at for the past year and a half. This was the sixth time I had held it and every time requires a great deal of planning, preparation and trying to "sell" the idea to potential guests. I always use a mix of Japanese and `foreign` dj's and attract a clientel that is of a similar mix. It is something that I am quite proud of considering that I could barely match beats two years ago and barely had the confidence to stand in front of a room of people and take a chance like this. It is really disappointing that I literally question holding any further events for the risk of what might again happen if there are too many foreigners in attendence. |
How many times were you raided in the past 6 times? Is your event something that would attract a large number of foreigners? You were not singled out, as the place (Twisters) above you was also raided, so don't take this personally, but we need to know more (or at least I do) in order to make a more informed commentary. Otherwise, the above quote just looks like whining to some. Yeah, it's disappointing whenever anyone's plans and potential for good times gets such an interruption and beating, but was it warranted?
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| I have lived in Japan for five years and this serves as a brutal reminder of the institutionalized racism present here towards Koreans, Chinese, Peruvian's in light of the El Barco raids, and virtually anyone else that is not Japanese. |
The sad cry of anyone caught in the midst of an immigration raid, whether innocent or not. This may sound harsh, and I feel sorry that a lively event was dashed like this, but I don't know enough to see both sides of the issue.
I will finish my post with this quote and a comment.
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| A Japanese friend who asked the undercover dancer about what was happening, was told that the only reason the police came was to find illegal aliens/immigrants. The foreign inspectors who came in informed me that it was primarily an immigration issue, but really wouldn't give any other information. A foreigner customer speculated that it had to do with the 1 am dancing law, but that was speculation. The best I understand is that it had to do with proving our status as legal residents.The search was so half-assed that it seemed more like they wanted to shut the place down and so this was a drawn out way in which to do it. |
There you have it. The DJ writes nothing except complete speculation as to the reason why the raid occurred. How can we discuss/argue intelligently on this point, which I consider to be one of the two major things we can discuss? |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Why do you deem it speculation? The OP reported what others told the OP. The others supposedly spoke with the police.
Still, I like your statements overall and the issues you raise. The thread title is a bit one sided, though to be honest, if the real reason for the raid was to stop illegal immigrants, the raid seems like it was a farce. If it was conducted for another reason, is wasn't very clear what it was. Now as to length of time the search took, yes it would be better to be clear how long it took. |
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jase_y
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 1
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sushi
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| I am wondering if it was a money making event as well, and maybe certain peoples were a little miffed that the event had gotten off the ground. |
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Bayden
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This is correct. The majority Japanese can live a great life without knowing English or being able to communicate in it. They can go about their lives and that is that. However, English would open up some avenues, depending on the job, and probably make traveling more of an independant adventure, instead of hanging on to the crutch they have called, "a package tour."
Just like most of Canada functions fine without knowing anyFrench, despite being forced to study it in school, even though it's one of the official languages of Canada. |
Do Police and salarymen in Canada speak Japanese? If not, why would you expect their counterparts in Japan to speak English? |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bayden wrote: |
Do Police and salarymen in Canada speak Japanese? If not, why would you expect their counterparts in Japan to speak English? |
Read the whole thread. That's what some of us were saying!  |
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