Job Discussion Forums

[cj750]

post below

[cj750]

[englishgibson]

And still nothing relevant.....ohh, the two words "English First" , and that took two posts above

Cheers and beers to the hard working FTs in China

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Forums are a jungle and so is the job market in China

[Gregor]

Man, oh man.
Just like old times. Englishgibbon (or whatever) taking cracks at EF...
Well, I worked as a DOS at EF Shenyang and Dalian. Liked both jobs, for the most part. Now I'm going back to Shenyang as a teacher to work under the guy I trained to replace me. I DID that training two years ago, and he's still planning on sticking around for another year, so Shenyang must be a reasonably decent place to work.
OP, feel free to PM me and ask whatever you want to know. It's been my experience that if you are qualified and professional for the job you take on, and are fairly good at communication across linguistic barriers and know how to handle living in a foreign culture, then you'll be OK. Oh, that and compromise. DOS is a middle-management position, and that is always going to be a bull**** job, in any country. Compromise and negotiating skills are mandatory. You HAVE to see both sides to any dispute. You are the go-between. If the management doesn't trust you, or the teachers think you've "switched sides," you're dead in the water.
This was a mistake I made in my first almost-year as a DoS. I kept seeing things as US vs THEM. Well, THEY don't see it that way. The problem is that the CM and investors want to make money and the teachers (and presumably you're a teacher) want to educate. This causes problems sometimes, but if you can see the management side of things, you'll realize that it is reasonable to want to make a profit, and it is possible to reconcile that with good educational standards.
It helps to stay in touch with the other DOSes and to go to the regional and general China conferences. You touch base with other DoSes across the country and find out how they handle different problems and issues, and it gives you a better perspective.
My CM was reluctant to send me to those things because she was afraid that I'd become even MORE difficult to work with than I already was. But when I came back, I had tapped the minds of more experienced DoSes, and they made me see how to compromise and work within the system, and my CM just LOVED me from then on.
And I lost no respect from the teachers. I was able to show them things from the management point of view, and what they could do to keep education standards high without upsetting the cart.
It is a difficult, time-consuming and sometimes thankless job, but I took it on because A) it paid more (it wasn't the skive I was hoping for but there you go), and B) I honestly wanted to make my teachers' lives better.
I think I successded for the most part.
Again - PM me if you want to ask any questions. I assume you're in your office now. Or will be, soon. I can't remember what the date is right now. But feel free. I'll be returning to China as soon as I can get my visa stuff together.
Best of luck...

Oh, by the way, I'm back in the US at the moment. The best paying jobs available (and they are thin on the ground, folks) are VERY similar to the "language mill" stuff you all hate so much. St. Giles, ELS, and so on...they have similar requirements to EF, and if you don't like the language mills in China, you'd hate doing these jobs in your native countries just as much. They are for-profit, private language centers (or "centres" if you want to be that way) and they pay the bills. As in China, eventually, quality wins out, but only with a LOT of marketing. The complaint of the teacher is universal - money vs. education. There IS a balancing point. It CAN be done. A good manager can find that fulcrum.

[englishgibson]

Well, it's nice to see one with real EF DOS experience under his belt on this forum and it's good to read other points of views about the position. However, if you cannot put your personal issues behind and come out right off as an old cranky lady on here .....

[cj750]

[englishgibson]

Enjoying the freedom of the forums, recruiter? ...anything relevant to the topic, EF English First or that DOS position that you've never had and never will have?
Keep it coming girl, there's a load of teachers coming to China
and
cheers and beers to the hard working FTs in China

[cj750]

as I have said before...

Your purpose in using relevant here is to argue that those who participate in this discussion appear, to seek to determine the limits of critique through
defining or authorising what is seen to be �relevant� and hence legitimate. Moreover relevance means entering into the territory of that which is being critiqued in order to
offer something more �constructive�, again limiting the potential of critique. From this I
would like to argue that processes are at work here through notions such as
�relevance� regarding who is legitimately seen to be able to engage seriously in critique, as
well as what kinds of things can be legitimately critiqued and how.

[Mister Al]

EG

You sound as if you were really angry all the time when you were a DOS at EF Suzhou and EF wherever else. What's up man? Effective managers should remain calm if not all the time then certainly most of the time. Is this how you behave at work? Rant...spit the dummy....rave...spit the dummy....I want what I want........spit the dummy....rant............

You ARE a nutter.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

[englishgibson]

[cj750]

EG has become this forums "red headed step child"

[englishgibson]

....nice coming....have you got more

What's the topic?

No peace as it looks, but
cheers and beers

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Viruses are tough to rid off

[KES]

[Gregor]

Well, Englishgibson.
I will cop to the cheap shot and appologize for it. "Englishgibbon" was funny, but it was un-called-for.
Well, it WAS called-for. But...umm...Oh yeah. I'm a bigger man than that. So I appologize.
Certainly you are free to attack EF, or even me. It's a free country.
And you know what, everyone? I will also cop to having removed myself from certain dealings between the management of my school and the head office. I didn't want to do anything that would hurt my standing with the HO, and at the same time, I recognized that the local management paid my bills.
The thing is, the management liked me. Why? Because I kept the teachers and students happy. We had a HUGE re-sign-up rate. Both with teachers and students.
The management of that school reallty took care of the teachers, and the teachers were good. Maybe still are. I dunno. The point is, some things have nothing to do with YOU, PERSONALLY. If you are going to get all high and mighty about any illegal activities that you have nothing to do with and no control over, that's up to you. I personally didn't make it my business, and I wouldn't have a part of it. End of story.
I don't know Englishgibson. My guess is that he got himself FAR more involved with things that didn't concern him, and he got bitter about his lack of ability or authority to deal with those things.
That, or maybe he had a really bad CM. I don't know.
The point is, if you do your job, and just stick to that, and don't freak out about school policy, then you're good. What do you care?
You care if:
1) The students are happy.
2) The students learn.
3) Your boss is happy.

THAT'S IT.
Beyond those things, who cares? And that much is EASY to accomplish. That's all there is to it.
Forget about students not passing tests. If they fail tests and they get passed anyway, WHY do you care? That happens in some schools. So just PASS everyone. Quit wasting your time marking tests, if that's what it comes to. If you are a teacher, then just flippin' TEACH. If a student falls behind, he or she will drop out eventually. If he or she can't keep up, then advise him or her to go to a lower level, and just teach to the level you have. Why is this a problem? Because the student "shouldn't" be in that level?
Again, why do you care? If the student just wants the number on his book, fine. He can't back it up in spoken English. Who cares? Just do the job. What difference does it make? If ALL the students are of a lower level, then TEACH at a lower level.
It sucks for things to go that way where you're working. And it's a bad sign - you may want to look for another job. But it's not a big deal. Just teach the people you are given to teach. That's all there is to it.
Why is tis such a contoversy?