Job Discussion Forums

[Suzie K]

It is a job that takes little time and energy. The income can be very lucrative. I thought it would be great for teachers to supplement their income while getting into a position teaching. It can be done from anywhere in the world as long as you have the internet.
Sound howky i know.....but really it not.

[jsbankston]

Yes, I'm 42, but for many years have lived like little better than a child. After my dad died my mom started treating me like a little kid again. Then I got laid off 5 years ago from the only job I ever liked, the only job that paid decently, and I was so gutted by that, then beset with manic-depression, that I became pretty much helpless. Nothing I did seemed to work, especially when it came to looking for employment. I became more and more debilitated and she became more demanding and nagged more. This is one of the many reasons I want to start a brand new life elsewhere.

But there's always the practical reasons. I want to see the world. I want to gather material for books. I want to immerse myself in cultures outside of that of suburban Texas.

[jsbankston]

One of my mom's big objections is "If teaching English overseas was so great and the working conditions were so good, then everybody would be flocking ovre there to do it."

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Another issue with Japan (if I understand you correctly) is that you don't have a degree. You need one to work in Japan.

If you really have manic depression (was this diagnosed by a phychiatrist? Or are you just putting a good sounding word in front of 'depression'?) then you definately should not be going overseas to work. Especially at first, it is really very stressful, and that can set anyone sort of off-centre. People starting out with a less secure "centre" are more likely to be severely affected.

If I were you, i would first think about just getting out of Texas and into another state, or at least further away. If you really want to go overseas, then get a night job doing something like stocking shelves or whatever that will pay you enough to drop some of your debt. Live in shared accomodations so that it's cheap. (I use this example because it's how I managed it, except that I'm Canadian.)

Part of your mother's reasoning may be that if you feel you need to call home when you get into trouble in the States, then if you go overseas there won't be anyone to help you. Of course "jap kids" sort of seems to say it all, so maybe that really is all there is to it.

Try to think of it from her perspective. She doesn't have anyone else and so is trying to keep you close-ish.

Kids, parents and the community at large may or may not be 'more respectful' of you as a teacher than in the States. A lot of people see foreign teachers as people who are paid too much to do too little and aren't 'real' teachers anyway. A lot of people don't. It really depends on who professional you behave, your post-seconday qualifications and your ability in the country's language. Some kids especially will assume you don't speak the local language and may just walk up and start insulting you (in the local language). Happens where I am all the time. Sometimes adults tell them to stop (to which the kids may say things like "It doesn't understand so I can say whatever I want to it"---this happened to me a couple of days ago, except it was in the teacher's room of a public school), more often they don't. Keep in mind that America is not the only place with people who think in terms of blanket statements such as "jap kids". I've dealt with it in Japan over and over- kids who show up and say that their parents told them that foreigners are scum, and that Japanese kids should not be learning about other countries or learning other languages because they are NIPPON JIN.

[jsbankston]

Another issue with Japan (if I understand you correctly) is that you don't have a degree. You need one to work in Japan.

[I do have a degree, a BA, with double major in English and history. What I don't have is a teacher's certificate.]

If you really have manic depression (was this diagnosed by a phychiatrist? Or are you just putting a good sounding word in front of 'depression'?) then you definately should not be going overseas to work. Especially at first, it is really very stressful, and that can set anyone sort of off-centre. People starting out with a less secure "centre" are more likely to be severely affected.

[According to a former GP and a shrink, I do have manic-depression. I have tried many medications and the side-effects are worse than the symptoms. That said, I find as long as I have some way to keep busy and interested and not bored and am not worried about money, I can do pretty well. If I enjoy my environment, things go well. If I don't, things go badly.

Still, I really don't want to be talked out of this. I really want to go.]

If I were you, i would first think about just getting out of Texas and into another state, or at least further away. If you really want to go overseas, then get a night job doing something like stocking shelves or whatever that will pay you enough to drop some of your debt.

[I'm looking for work, but really wouldn't do well with physically strenuous stuff.]


Live in shared accomodations so that it's cheap. (I use this example because it's how I managed it, except that I'm Canadian.)

[Not a good option for me--I need my privacy.]


Part of your mother's reasoning may be that if you feel you need to call home when you get into trouble in the States, then if you go overseas there won't be anyone to help you. Of course "jap kids" sort of seems to say it all, so maybe that really is all there is to it.

[Well, she's never really taken me too seriously, never regarded me as an adult. She wavers between babying me, then imposing "tough love," then wonders why none of this works. I've often been dependent on her financially, to the extent she more or less gives me orders about what to do. If I don't obey, I risk getting evicted or going hungry. If I got a job that paid decently I could break free of her, but this has only happened a few times.

All my working life she has counseled, "Just get any job you can for now, no matter how bad. You just need enough to live on. Don't worry--you won't have to do it all your life." The trouble is, I HAVE done this all my life. I've been doing dead-end, low-paying jobs instead of marking out a career strategy. I've been unable to get out of the trap because I've never been paid enough to do anything more than cover my basic expenses. So I am eager for a change, to break free.]

Try to think of it from her perspective. She doesn't have anyone else and so is trying to keep you close-ish.

[I realize that, but I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 years and she lives a two-hour drive away (I have no car). When she got married the first time she settled in the same town as her parents, just a few streets from their house, and worked as a teacher. And that's apparently what she wants for me--to teach, to marry some fat cow in stretch pants, and move a few blocks away from her. But the suburban Amreican dream repulses me. It's a walking death, in my opinion. I don't want that life.]

Kids, parents and the community at large may or may not be 'more respectful' of you as a teacher than in the States. A lot of people see foreign teachers as people who are paid too much to do too little and aren't 'real' teachers anyway. A lot of people don't. It really depends on who professional you behave, your post-seconday qualifications and your ability in the country's language. Some kids especially will assume you don't speak the local language and may just walk up and start insulting you (in the local language). Happens where I am all the time. Sometimes adults tell them to stop (to which the kids may say things like "It doesn't understand so I can say whatever I want to it"---this happened to me a couple of days ago, except it was in the teacher's room of a public school), more often they don't. Keep in mind that America is not the only place with people who think in terms of blanket statements such as "jap kids". I've dealt with it in Japan over and over- kids who show up and say that their parents told them that foreigners are scum, and that Japanese kids should not be learning about other countries or learning other languages because they are NIPPON JIN.

[Though I am considering other places than Japan, I would bet your observations apply in other coutries as well.]

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[jsbankston]

Most people in Texas who become teachers take teacher's ed courses while they pursue their BA. I've taken freshman and sophomore fducation courses, but you have to pass an exam to get into the junior and senior year courses. The exam is half math, half English. I passed the English splendidly, but flunked the math. And as I explained, I have a math disability--I even have trouble with arithmetic--and experts say it's unlikely I can fix that at this point. So I would only have about 2 years worth of education courses to take in the US if I didn't have the math to worry about.

Sorry, but basically this all sounds like you've got it all figured out for yourself- you are trapped.

[That's why I'm looking for a way out.]

You seem to have decided that there is no possible way out of it

[No, the way out of it is to get a job that pays decently, pure and simple. I just haven't been able to find one. But my interest in TEFL is not so much about merely getting by from month to month as it is to break out of the cycle of crap jobs and starting a life on my own terms, doing things I actually care about doing.]

because you can't do physical labour (like putting erasers and pens on shelves) and you can't live in shared accomodations because you need privacy (in shared accomodations, you know that you have your own room, and it has its own lock on the door and that you generally just share the kitchen, bathroom etc, right?)

[No, I didn't know that. I just at least need a room of my own.]

and so you can't afford to pay rent so you have to go to your mother for rent and if you don't do what she says (even though you don't want to do what she says and you're in your forties) then she will cut you off financially and you will either live on the street or go hungry. (BTW- going hungry is what I did to avoid borrowing from family members- one paskage of Mr.Noodles a day! woo woo! malnutrition!!!! I wouldn't advise it, but I'm just using this as a point to illustrate that sometimes you have to just suck it up and do what needs to be done to get where you want to be. That's what life is like.)

[jsbankston]

Just keep in mind that things never remain rosey for ever. But they don't remain craptacular for ever either. You need to be prepared to deal with it overseas when it happens to you here/there.

[I went to Paris for a week earlier this year and mostly enjoyed myself during the day, but at night was depressed and brooding. The reasons for the latter were 1) I dreaded what I was going back to, that I'd soon be out of money and looking for crap jobs again, and 2) I really missed my dog. My dog is fatally ill now. We've been together 11 years, and when he does pass I really want to flee the scene here.

Now having said all this, I am anxious to get back to Paris in specific, and the big, bright world in general.]

Boredom means different things to different people, but it's pretty much guaranteed that at some time you will be bored overseas- if you don't speak the langauge and have no access to English books, or movies or TV.

[Precisely why I intend to take along a lot of those books I always wanted to read an never had time for.]

If you have several free periods in a row. If you have no friends to meet up with outside of work. If nobady at work will talk to you because you're the only foreinger, or because you're only a foreigner.

[I'm something of a loner anyway. I can take people or leave them. I'm not a huge socializer, but I can take it in doses.]

Again, you have to be able to deal with it by yourself (or with a doctor)- there's a high likelihood that nobody else will help you. Sounds harsh, but it's just reality. Those kinds of problems tend to be taboo in a lot of places.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

If you do teacher training in New York, then it's only a year. They have consecutive B.ed programs. I know this because in Buffalo there are a couple of schools that offer programs specifically for people who want to be teachers in Ontario, Canada because 90% of people who apply for b.ed (one year after your BA) get turned down inOntario. 90% is a lot.

I'm sorry to hear about your dog.

You've already mentioned you know how hard it is for Americans to work in the EU. Did you know that the EU pays very little money, to boot? Not a great place for Americans. And a week isn't like living there for a year at least (do you speak French?). People go to Asia or the Middle East to make money. Without graduate qualifications Asia is much better. THere are about a billion posts on this subject if you click 'search'.

You'll still run out of books, but probably you'll be able to get them online or find a large bookshop that has international books. It takes me an hour and a half each way to get to Tokyo to get books (and costs almost $15 each way). So I just buy several hundred dollars worth each visit and only go twice a year (sometimes three times, depends how social I've been).


Basically, you just need wiggle room - money to get started, and that's it, you're set (of course, that's going to be about 2000$ if you come to Japan, for example). But to get wiggle room you will likely have to do some crap job for a little while, (or maybe six months) or borrow money.

Don't worry about what your mother says. You're in your forties. You don't want to look back in twenty-five years and say "What if...?" b/c that would just suck.

[Bayden]

It sounds to me like China would be the ideal place for you to get started.
If you line up a job before you come you'll have an apartment waiting for you when you arrive and you'll basically need only 3-$500 to get you over your first month (untill you get paid). Many schools will also refund the cost of the ticket.
I believe a one way ticket could be purchased at a reasonable rate if you shop around.
A big wide world waiting out here for you, but you've got to get off your ass and make it happen. You might like to start here.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/
Your qualifications are OK for China.
And yes, it will be stressful at the start, and yes, will have to just suck it up sometimes, but we all do/did. It gets better and easier with time.
At age 42 it's time you got on with the busness of living, 50's just around the corner.
I do, however, worry about your ability to deal with the culture shock (it's real and it can be huge) without becoming withdrawn, depressed or lashing out.

[Ariadne]

jsbankston, you have been looking for information and advice. Although most of the folks who responded have been supportive, I think you are quite likely not suited to teaching overseas.

1. You are 42 years old and have not had a full time permanent job for 5 years. You are financially dependent on your mother, although you haven't seen her for 2 years. It takes money to get started in a new place. You are in debt and have no real source of income. Why haven't you been able to find a job? If you are unable to work productively at home, what makes you think you could do a good job overseas?

2. You have a Math disability, including simple arithmetic. Foreign countries use different currencies. Would you be able to deal with yen, yuan, or pesos? Would you be able to properly take roll in class? Could you divide the class into groups? Can you figure grades from a list of scores? (Ex: 20% homework, 40% tests, 40% participation)

3. You have health conditions (sinusitis, thyroid, cholesterol) that require medications. More seriously, you have a mental illness for which you are not taking medication. You mentioned that, "If I enjoy my environment, things go well. If I don't, things go badly." Sometimes things go badly for folks working overseas.. apartments, money, coworkers, students, lesson plans, transportation, electricity, bugs, shopping. Things that are easy back home can be enormously difficult overseas. Different customs, different language, different expectations.

4. You said that, "...amassing a well selected library is about the only thing I've ever accomplished in my life." You asked, "...how are you to know what to do with your students?" You have never made a lesson plan and you don't like "rotten, stuck-up rich kids". Students deserve a level of competence from their teachers. You have not yet developed enough technical or life skills to do a good job.

Why don't you find a job.. sorry to repeat it, but.. any job. Take charge of your own life. Pay your debts. Volunteer for the Literacy Council. If you really want to be a teacher, take some teaching courses on-line or at least study on your own. Then, maybe, you can think about going overseas.

.

[Bayden]

I think what Ariadne is saying is grow up.
At age 42 do you really need your mothers permission?
Or for that matter give a rats what she thinks or,in regard to this threads title, need to convince her.
For crying out loud.

[jsbankston]

jsbankston, you have been looking for information and advice. Although most of the folks who responded have been supportive, I think you are quite likely not suited to teaching overseas.

1. You are 42 years old and have not had a full time permanent job for 5 years. You are financially dependent on your mother, although you haven't seen her for 2 years. It takes money to get started in a new place. You are in debt and have no real source of income. Why haven't you been able to find a job?

[I am a writer/editor and have done some freelance work, but the media market has been in a bad place in recent years, and my experience was not sufficient to land me one of the better jobs. I've been told, regarding all sorts of jobs--not just in my field--that I am under-qualified for some things and over-qualified for others. Why it's taken so long I can't say. I've had a few temp and PT jobs, but there's just not that much I really care about doing or am good at doing.]

If you are unable to work productively at home, what makes you think you could do a good job overseas?

[I am very productive given the right job. I've just been unable to convince anyone to hire me.]


2. You have a Math disability, including simple arithmetic. Foreign countries use different currencies. Would you be able to deal with yen, yuan, or pesos? Would you be able to properly take roll in class? Could you divide the class into groups? Can you figure grades from a list of scores? (Ex: 20% homework, 40% tests, 40% participation)

[There is such a thing as the pocket calculator, right?]

3. You have health conditions (sinusitis, thyroid, cholesterol) that require medications. More seriously, you have a mental illness for which you are not taking medication. You mentioned that, "If I enjoy my environment, things go well. If I don't, things go badly." Sometimes things go badly for folks working overseas.. apartments, money, coworkers, students, lesson plans, transportation, electricity, bugs, shopping. Things that are easy back home can be enormously difficult overseas. Different customs, different language, different expectations.

[Is there any reason to doubt me when I say I know what does and does not set me off? If I know how to keep my problems in check, shouldn't that suffice? Or do you think I belong in the nut house?]

4. You said that, "...amassing a well selected library is about the only thing I've ever accomplished in my life." You asked, "...how are you to know what to do with your students?" You have never made a lesson plan and you don't like "rotten, stuck-up rich kids". Students deserve a level of competence from their teachers. You have not yet developed enough technical or life skills to do a good job.

[I have rarely been put in any situation where I could rise to the occsion. I have had a few moments of excellence. I asked how do you know wht to do with your students if you have had no training in this. I assumed everyone would understand I meant I wouldn't want to go into this field half-*****, with no preparation. I daresay many people go into TEFL without state-side teaching experience. I would hope whatever organization that would hire me would give me some training before they shipped me overseas.

And I don't think it's unreasonable for me to have been annoyed by misbehaving students that I had when I worked as a librarian and sub at a private school. I had no support from parents or administration--that was understandably frustrating.

Why don't you find a job.. sorry to repeat it, but.. any job.

[That's what I'm trying to do--with this. If no one in my own country will pay me to use my actual skills, maybe someone overses will.]

Take charge of your own life. Pay your debts.

[I hope to pay my debts with money made overseas.]

Volunteer for the Literacy Council. If you really want to be a teacher, take some teaching courses on-line or at least study on your own. Then, maybe, you can think about going overseas.

[jsbankston]

I think what Ariadne is saying is grow up.
At age 42 do you really need your mothers permission?
Or for that matter give a rats what she thinks or,in regard to this threads title, need to convince her.
For crying out loud.

[Unless you've been in an unhealthy, co-dependent relationship with someone who may themselves be mentally ill, you can't know how hard it is to extricate yourself from it. It's easy to say, "Just walk away," but less so to actually do it.

My desire is there. I'd like-- no LOVE-- to be independent. All it would take was a job that paid decently. But apparently I've got the stink of desperation or something on me. My leper's bell is ringing too loudly.

And so until such time as someone is willing to hire me, I'm stuck jumping through these d*** hoops in order to keep myself fed and sheltered. I absolutely hate it, and I want out. I thought TEFL would be a way out, a major and clean break, but some people seem hell-bent on discouraging me from the life.

Not that I intend to let that stop me.]

[Bayden]