Job Discussion Forums

[Samantha]

Yes, that WAS a bit over the top there Sarge. You must be in Asia. I agree with Guy's comments about the circumstances in rural Mexico not being equal (not by a long stretch). There's no money in many areas. Students, in hopes of moving to the USA or the big city, scrape like heck to pay for English classes in smaller centers with few job opportunities to earn said money. Schools are forever chasing tuitions. Owning a school in one of these areas and meeting payroll has to be a real challenge. Heck, this happens in my city too, not just in rural areas. One of my (and other teachers) jobs in a small language school was to remind the tardy students that tuition was over-due and tell them they couldn't come to the next class if not paid. It was embarrassing and awful being a teacher/bill collector knowing that they truly wanted to learn but that the parents were so short of money.

Believe it or not there are still jobs in Guadalajara only paying $6500 a month (yes pesos) and rent, etc. is NOT included, nor is transportation to the job. (You can't exactly walk to work in a big city.) She may even be ahead of the game, all things considered. I don't know Oxford Seminars other than they come from eastern Canada, but it sounds as if Guy does.

[M@tt]

ouch, guy! my comparison wasn't THAT pointless; $4000/month is bad even by rural standards, about as bad as trying to live on minimum wage in the US. why pick the lowest bracket of income imaginable and longest working hours imaginable for an ESL teacher? unless having down time and making money aren't important to the OP and they really enjoy the job, i don't see any reason for sticking with it.[/i]

[Samantha]

For an eye-opener, check out the legal DAILY minimum wages of this country, rated by geographical areas A, B, C. (C being lowest) This kind of puts things into perspective.

#43
Maestro en escuelas primarias particulares
Teacher in private primary schools

http://www.mexicanlaws.com/Minwages2005.htm

[Guy Courchesne]

My apologies Matt...something struck a chord. I earlier agreed that the OP should and could leave. I don't think the school needs to be trashed so, for simply being in a low-economic area. They're not being given a fair shake.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

There are lots of full-time jobs teaching English in this part of the country that pay $4,000 to $5,000 pesos per month, and they don't include housing, transportation, or much of anything else. In many of the villages, jobs teaching English that pay $4,000/month aren't considered all that unusual around here. I know of full-time jobs (45+ hours per week) teaching English in the city that pay between $20 and $35 pesos per hour.

I agree with Guy that if a school is in a lower economic area, and the owner can't afford to pay higher wages, that in itself is not a reason to trash the school and its owner. As has been mentioned, if a teacher feels uncomfortable with the pay and the job situation, then he should look for greener pastures. If the school owner is a lying, cheating, dishonest SOB, then by all means, bad-mouth him and his school all over the place. However, if it's simply a situation of a school owner not being able to pay teachers very much in order to make a profit from his business, that in itself is no reason to put the school on a black list.

[Sgt Killjoy]

Well the school needs to be honest and upfront that the position is semi-volunteer. I don't think it is a case of a school not being able to afford to pay more to their teacher, it is more of a case of maximizing profit. The teacher wage to tuition margin in Mexico is one of the highest I have ever seen.

The education business is a good business to be in, just ask Guy. I am sure you are a nice and fair Guy, but your business is education, you make money off of teachers coming to Mexico to get training to take these kind of jobs. You have a vested interest in protecting low wage schools. Hey that is ok, everyone needs to pay their bills the best they can.

A lot of these small school misrepresent the real deal in Mexico. Melee posted prices in rural Mexico, yeah prices have taken a big jump since I was first in Mexico. I have been in and out of Mexico since 1995. I remember the wages on offer in rural Mexico were the same in 1997 as they are now. The salaries of every other occupation has gone up, but wages for native teachers have been stagnant everywhere but Mexico City.

Back in 1997, a bilingual secretary in Queretaro earned 6000 pesos a month. Now that same secretarial position pays 14,000 pesos a month. I would hope that a typical TEFLer has more qualifications than a secretary.

United Airlines in Mexico City paid their starting call center reservation agents 6500 pesos a month back in 1999. Now, the same call center reservations agents get 12,000 pesos a month.

According to every news report and from my last time in Mexico just a month ago, the wages in the rural areas are between 3500 to 4500 pesos a month for a typical worker. What do we get for this? No premium is being paid for being a native speaker.

Now, if a school is up front about the wages and working conditions from the get go, I have no problems, if someone signs on with knowledge of the facts then all is well. But if a school lies about conditions, whether living, working, or payment, it needs to be made public.

You talk about plugging a website, Guy. You have been plugging your business since you came on this site, hey no problem with that, business is business. My site isn't a business. I put 15 to 20 hours a week of work in it and any revenue I make doesn't even cover the hosting costs, I dip into my own pocket every month to provide a service to teacher. I take time that I could devote to other pursuits so that teachers can have a place to talk about problematic schools. I am not afraid to let people know about the site because the more people know about the site, the more valuable the site becomes to other teachers.

I was on this baord long before just about everyone posting here, I have been with Dave's since the very early days and have seen the explosion in the tefl industry, but one thing has been constant, there are always schools trying to take advantage of teachers.

One other thing, Ben and Guy, if merely posting on the internet that a school pays xxxx amount of pesos for xx amount of hours per week and that the supplied apartment is like a prison cell, how is that trashing the school? It is merely providing the information that the school itself should be providing to the potential teacher.

Why let a school hide behind half truths?

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[Guy Courchesne]

Sarge, your site provides a good service. You've seen that I'm over there reading. It's something that should be plugged here...

But, I have to seriously question you if you declare that you are going to shame a school without doing the slightest bit of research on it. You demean your own site by removing any notion of impartiality. That makes it little more than a scandal rag...the National Enquirer of teaching abroad. I guess gone are the days when .org meant non-profit, right?

Let me show you how proper reporting is done.

[Sgt Killjoy]

[Guy Courchesne]

Ok, ok, we've been to a brink and we're back to some civility. Some things really get my hackles up...I list justice in my profile as one of my interests. I really mean that and hope it's understood in this.

You run a site and you're hip-deep in TEFL like the rest of us here. You know that heated, public comments are made all the time, but that they are vastly outnumbered by the quiet, background work that is done to either make things better or weed out the crap. I don't write it up, but I have lots of correspondence and even make personal visits to investigate such issues. Innocent until proven guilty does mean something.

I simply think you were too quick on the draw...the original post certainly does raise eyebrows, as it does questions. But it's only one post, and highly subjective. I think your choice of words,

[Sgt Killjoy]

[ls650]

If we could return to the original post for a moment:

[Guy Courchesne]

[Belmont]

I don't see that anyone's "trashed" a school simply by describing the accommodation offered. I'd like to know this sort of info if I were heading south to teach.

And I really don't get Guy's comment about not liking how this "gringa" came to be teaching in Mexico. What's wrong? She sounds adventurous, and is probably a very good teacher. It's not brain surgery we're talking about. A short EFL course is just fine, but not necessary. Teaching is intuitive. It's an art. Any reasonably energetic and outgoing person can get the hang of it very quickly.

[Guy Courchesne]