Job Discussion Forums

[william wallace]

First, I'd like to state that I generally dislike speaking ill of any school, but once in a while situations arise that really call for a person to voice themselves, to help save prospective victims. I'm quite angry and frustrated, so bare with me, as I TRY to contain myself from just exploding into using expletives only.

I was employed with this BUSINESS /pseudo University, well actually they are using/leasing, or more appropriately misusing Jiaotong's good name and with that golden liscense are able to churn a profit from the national pool of students who are somewhat desperate after doing poorly on the Chinese National Test, so that puts these Chinese students and prospective students in a vulnerable circumstance. I had taught the ESL part of a Master's in Accounting; it being a joint-venture with an Australian university.I was there teaching part-time for about 1-2 months when the whole program went up in smoke, if you ask why, you've not been in this INDUSTRY very long. We,naturally are left in the dark as much as humanly possible, but whatever the true reason for being in the dark, I assure you it is not complimentary! So, last year I had to contend with students who were unmotivated to begin with, and now were no longer in a Master's of Accounting degree, and no longer going to Australia to complete that degree. They were merely learning ESL to chat away with cab drivers ? As the students of 28(originally) had said, a whole year wasted.That was last year.

We were promissed, no, we were guaranteed by word of mouth that come September we'd (me and another teacher who I won't name, but does visit this site) get 20+ hours a week, at 150 RMB per hour. All Summer long(2 1/2 months) I was financially looking forward to this,as I had fell into debt.

We were to start September 25th, so naturally we didn't search for other work, as we had work starting on that date mentioned above. Last week we had a meeting at Jialtong ,given a tremendous amount of photocopied books, and we were told that possibly more than 26 hours could be had.Everything seemed to be on track. The "leader" called my wife around September 15th to tell her that now instead of a "relationship"(?) with an Australian university, it's now with an American university in California(UC Riverside ???), and that the start date would be delayed a BIT, both X and myself started to be suspicious. Then X was told a day later over a phone conversation with either Mr. "Leader", or a cohort, that he would see what's happening ,but the words "training" and "interview" were peppered in during the conversation. I wouldn't mind the training,but interview? Don't we have jobs? Both X and I were thinking.

Now, they are saying they'll TRY and get us work in some other university, for the first term, after the October holidays. X sent me an ad from an ESL site with the very job that we're ...not good enough for? Though, I THOUGHT my education and many years of experience in THIS very city would qualify me, though specifically I do not have a TESOL. Below is what I strongly suspect is the ad, and I ask you to seriously re-consider any association until they openly admit to being only a business, and/or start to give greater consideration to teachers(from this experience), or to students who are under their care(As in last year).

Shame on you !

http://www.thatsbj.com/index.php?a=2&b=130593

UPDATE: There has been a misunderstanding over qualifications presented to the other partnered uni, so hopefully this Monday it CAN be rectified or rectalfied.

[2 over lee]

William what you say rings true for me.

Apparantly JiangzeMing is a graduate of this University, as I understand it the original Jiaotong-'traffic' University was in Shanghai. This Uni has been trading off its good name and been opening campuses all over China.

[DaXiangLouis]

Is the 'Jiaotong University' in Beijing connected in any way with ONLY College?

[william wallace]

Right now I'm awaiting those %$#&* to make amends for their callous disregard, though now I'm hearing from X that this alternate uni might be in the boonies.................DUH !! Couldn't we have just gotten one of those all by ourselves ? If they make a REASONABLE restitution then I'll add that to this thread.

[Bayden]

[william wallace]

.....because it was the end of the school year, and the pencil pushing bureacrats were away,so "We'll sign the cotract when the school year begins". Then you can add throughout the two to four long conversations, both not initiated by myself, that you're a "great teacher", "great experience","valued IELTS teacher"... I've been here long enough to know that flattery in this country means nothing, and I seldom pay any attention to it,but I've also been here long enough to TRY and give these folks some benefit of a doubt. It's a pathetic Institute, and if they actually do get a person(s) with the preferred.......".� M.A. in TESOL, Applied Linguistics, or related field" then I would say the REAL MISTAKE is that I stayed in this rediculous field called ESL. Imagine, having incurred the 10,000-20,000 dollar university fees, time studying and testing to be adequately qualified to teach what in common parlance would be a bunch of slackers with not even a remote sense of interest in the topics, let alone the language of English, and then to exacerbate it with a school administration that seeks to appease this desperate herd of cash-cows , makes that degree a total waste of time and money. I was freelancing for 5-6 years in Beijing without any problem and every one of those terms required me to depend on word of mouth for work, and that went on without any problem.The point is, in this case they supossedly were not strangers.

[Shan-Shan]

[China.Pete]

"(I)f they actually do get a person(s) with the preferred 'M.A. in TESOL, Applied Linguistics, or related field,' then I would say the real mistake is that I stayed in this rediculous field called ESL." - William Wallace

What'll happen if the M.A.s actually attempt to apply all the progressive stuff they will have been taught for their degree? Thing is, most Chinese are still stuck in their teacher-centric view of education. "If our ill-prepared and unmotivated cash cows - I mean, students - aren't learning enough, it MUST be because their foreign teacher isn't sufficiently qualified." So they go for the teacher with the advanced degree, little realizing that it will probably just cause them more problems - not only educationally, but also in terms of someone who might also be less willing to kow-tow to the school leaders' every whim. They may live to rue the day.

[Shan-Shan]

Quite soon we'll all be require to possess on-line PhDs to teach ESL in China, what with the plethora of mail-order universities sprouting up daily with MAs in TESL which could be done essentially by anyone for anyone with little in terms of application requirements aside from a durable bank account.

Completing the soon to be required degree(s) may cost 20,000CDN, and require a decade to recoup in China, but at least the little brats will have to call us "Doctor". Might help with teacher esteem, prevent many from smacking their skulls with more and more of those pesky WHYs.

In a few years, TESL and CELTA certificates, with a BA, might land you a 20 kuai an hour job arranging the doctor's kindergarden desk before he/she begins pontificating to the little ones about how to modify noun groups with verb groups. The lacky with only a bachelor's degree and English teaching credentials will also be required to stick Little Fatty's thingy back in his pants after it whips out from the sheer excitement that learning English instills in everyone.

Korea has long required an MA (in anything) to teach ESL at university. Japan, I presume, is more severe. Somehow I doubt that Chinese universities, unless wages and benefits increase expotentially, will be able to demand similar backgrounds of their FTs. Korean universities pay incredibly well (from what I've read) with few hours. Anyone with an MA would be foolish to pass up such a gig for the usual 3500-5500 RMB versions found in China. That said, I really ought to start thinking about doing one of them MA things in anything.

Anyhow, I still believe that a degree and English teaching qualification (a real one) is adequate for teaching the English language. ESL is not a mind-bender. A teacher having received proper training in linguistics and language teaching ought to be able to satisfy the needs of the students. That, and being able to speak and write English fluently. Why an MA in philosphy, physics or faith healing automatically makes for an ESL teacher more deserving than one with an English teaching background is beguiling.

[william wallace]

I and X gave Jiaotong university more than ample time to rectify the situation I had originally posted above. I even removed "WARNING: Jiaotong" and put in "Tentative...",but they were super-duper SLEAZY, and they really must have thought us both ejits.This car salesman working on behalf of California University- Riverside is so slick,let's just call him teflon.So here's what happened over the past week.

The big boss,who is a middle-aged woman was somewhat embarrased about the handling of us both, so that there was a bit of pressure on the lower boss, a balding 50-ish year old fellow who had to make it right. That,of course, is giving them much more credit then is due!

We go into the office on Friday and baldy tells us to get in touch with Neil at the Dabao Hotel, and we are GUARANTEED a job. Yes! We know this sounds fishy, but I wanted to give the guy some benefit of the doubt, he lied once or twice, but sitting in my face he COULDN'T be lying again, and anyway we would find out on Monday. Baldy had arranged our meetings. And we were already screwed as far as having a selection of jobs for September.

Monday I arrive at 2PM and have an interrogation with two women who were quite...intimidating and never cracked a smile when I tried to lighten the mood. I was given a series of sentences and was asked to correct them grammatically .My throat was dry and I was dying for water and I started to delay in answering, which I knew wasn't helping, and then I asked for the two sentences to be repeated again. I tried to explain that if I was reading them or could put them on a whiteboard, it would be fine, but then I reacted to this badgering with a surrender after naming the particular parts of speech that were problem within the sentences. Then after leaving that room with the two hostile broads;Who I guarantee will come to know the realities of their circumstance soon enough! I go in and meet Neil, who proceeds to pontificate about his business and life from birth in Taiwan to life in Amerika, and proceeds to ruminate about more business possibilities in front of me, and this went on for 35 minutes, and I had to excuse myself as I had a young chap to tutor across town. After leaving together X and I compared notes. This Neil fellow, had said "I like you!" to both of us, he had promissed a job just a bit in the North of Beijing- like past 5th Ring Rd, or I could work in his office with all the other foreign GIRLS.
Today X went in person and called Neil up on one of the job possibilities.Training in LA for 2 weeks ,then to work for him in Beijing. The verdict was " they just didn't have any place for me". And get this, the freaking office in the Dabao hotel isn't even HIS, it's a "friend's". Not one blessed thing to make you think it is representing the University of California-Riverside, and boy it makes Riverside look soooooo sleazzzy. I guess it's anything goes, when it comes to getting at those students money,eh? And this middle-man who's business card has Riverside's name above, and below "UCC CEO" CEO of a university ? Has it gone public? ha ha! What INCENTIVES caused Jiaotong to drop it's intial program ? Hmmmm? The books had been printed, and handed out to us at the first,and last meeting. How little respect or worth was shown to us ? Is baldy innoccent ? Baldy also said that the ad that was running in "That's Beijing"( which I've attached in the OP)wasn't riverside, but browsing through it I found the same laowei secretary on their website and a bit about Neil treating the teachers to a meal, that is the job.and the last question ....In all these nefarious going ons....Where are the students ?????? We were originally to start two weeks ago.

All of them should stay clear of ANYTHING to do with education, and stick to selling used cars, and those holier than thou reps/teachers from Riverside are just as calpable. Disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[william wallace]

The territory occupied by Jiaotong is quite enormous, and runs the length and beyond of Gao Lian Qiao in the Haidian District.They now also occupy the campus that was originaly The Electric College/University, and it had also housed Delter Business Institute before the take-over by Jiaotong University.

[chufeng]

Who did you meet with from UC Riverside? I think I know a few of them.

[A Token of My Extreme]

[OGFT]

their current offering is 16K per month with a start date in October. they are taking applicants who are not as qualified as their published add has requested the applicants to be...and did you ever meet an Erin Butler, who claims to be the Academic Director of University of California, Riverside's International Education Programs, Beijing

http://www.ucrchina.org/

[cj750]

also to add to what OGFT has posted...

if you want to call and check ...

they currently have three overseas learning centers � in Seoul, South Korea and in Beijing China, which is their newest.

You can contact John Azzaretto at (1-951) 827-4102 I think he is the head (vice chance) of the intenational education center in Calif.