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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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 Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| I know Japan has a rep for good service. But actually I prefer the more laid back serive in the US. |
We must live in a different America from each other because with few exceptions I've always found service in the US to be abysmal. :)
"Laid back" as in slack jawed ignorance and total disinterest unless a tip is in the offering is the norm in my experience. I _hate_ US service. With a great big passion. Almost as much as I hate this bizarre US obsession with everyone having to be a "specialist", when in actual fact no one has a clue how to do their job at all, let alone be a "specialist" at it - unless the qualification is "superior mediocrity". The only place that offers worse service in general is Australia IMO.
Japan.... I find it a bit variable, but overall I much prefer it to the US. |
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strangelove
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Formosa
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| I _hate_ US service. |
What service? 
Don't get me started on those ubiquitous tip jars. I was thinking of putting one in my cube at my old IT job for kicks. |
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strangelove
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Formosa
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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keep in mind that if you look like this guy and your name happens to be mr. pink then it might be hard to get good service anywhere...
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luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
The only place that offers worse service in general is Australia IMO.
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Hey, thanks! When I'm considering a place to get something to eat, I'll take a miss on Australia.
You're right. Japan is a good joint with great service. I just wish they had a bigger non-smoking section. |
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callmesim
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 279
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The only place that offers worse service in general is Australia IMO. |
Would love to hear more! Can you explain further? |
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bassnyc1
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Although service in Japan has its funny points as others have already pointed out, I'll take it over service in the USA anytime. When I was first in Japan, I went to McDonalds and I couldn't believe how good the service was and the food was fresh (or as fresh as McD's can be) and it looked like the picture. In NYC, the person throws it in a bag upside down, fries everywhere, drink and food in the same bag and it's old and cold....and a bit more expensive than in Japan. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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The Keigo is what really gets me when I'm out and about shopping. I know its customary to speak a certain level of keigo to a customer but after having asked /given them permission to use regular Japanese on me it seems like they are just unable to do it. Asking them to simplify something seems to get you nowhere.
Maybe it is the teacher in me but I would say im pretty much able to get across anything to my students by using very simplified words/constructions.
Whenever I ask anyone one to simplify something for me with "easy" Japanese I more often than not get just a bunch of hmmmm's and haaaa's.
Ask me to describe a pine tree and I'm like ok. It's a tree that's always green, the leaves look like needles and they have things little coney things that fall to the ground as seeds. Asking my office lady what is meant by a ryoshusho and the conversation goes something like this.
Me: ( in japaense ) Hey, Kanako-san. What is meant by a ryoshusho.
Kanako ( in japanese) It's a..........ryoshusho
Me: What's a ryoshusho?
Kanako: You know its a .....its a ryoshusho.
repeat 5 times and end conversation.
Its really strange.Obviously not every conversation goes just like that but it happens enough that I have made a mental note of it. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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More examples of service I like;
The takubihn service, generally great and very convenient, could use something like that in the US where it is a bit more difficult to send packages.
Some of the restaurants with picture menus (for linguistically challenged people like me).
The US does seem a little more felxible (a little, super understatement), but it is true, sometimes it is a bit indifferent. especially when uni kids work for the summer (there are exceptions, the staff at a Friendly's near my state airport were more than polite).
One area where the US service far excels Japan's is dealing with problems.
In Japan "Uh, my steak is burned"
W "We are sorry sir, very sorry" 
In the US, my wife got a dish with vinegar soaked into it which neither of us could eat.
" Excuse me, We can't eat this, it reeks of vinegar!"
W "Would you like that order remade?"  |
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japan_01
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Gifu Ken
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| I would much prefer a burnt steak than a spit (the stuff that comes from your mouth) steak... |
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TK4Lakers
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Yawarakaijin wrote: |
The Keigo is what really gets me when I'm out and about shopping. I know its customary to speak a certain level of keigo to a customer but after having asked /given them permission to use regular Japanese on me it seems like they are just unable to do it. Asking them to simplify something seems to get you nowhere.
Maybe it is the teacher in me but I would say im pretty much able to get across anything to my students by using very simplified words/constructions.
Whenever I ask anyone one to simplify something for me with "easy" Japanese I more often than not get just a bunch of hmmmm's and haaaa's.
Ask me to describe a pine tree and I'm like ok. It's a tree that's always green, the leaves look like needles and they have things little coney things that fall to the ground as seeds. Asking my office lady what is meant by a ryoshusho and the conversation goes something like this.
Me: ( in japaense ) Hey, Kanako-san. What is meant by a ryoshusho.
Kanako ( in japanese) It's a..........ryoshusho
Me: What's a ryoshusho?
Kanako: You know its a .....its a ryoshusho.
repeat 5 times and end conversation.
Its really strange.Obviously not every conversation goes just like that but it happens enough that I have made a mental note of it. |
Haha I feel you. I was just thinking the same thing the other day. Whenever I ask what a certain Japanese word means, or have someone try to explain something, it seems almost impossible to them. They get this blank look, or a look where they look off into space and there's atleast a 10 second pause. It was a bit frustrating and funny at first...but I think I'm use to this kind of reaction now.
I also think it has to do with the difference to languages. I'm not expert, but it seems like English is more fluid and little things can be explained a lot easier, and bigger things can be broken down easily. ~when you read a sentence and come upon an unknown word, you can sometimes come up with the meaning by picking apart the sentence.
In Japan, it seems like the language is more structured and solid. So if you don't know a certain word, you're pretty much screwed. You then need to look it up and memorize it. It seems like a lot of the Japanese language is just based on memorization without much explaning or defining. |
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TK4Lakers
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Also, another experience where I'd favor America's service over Japan's.
I went out to a local restaraunt and ordered a kiwi sour. It tasted horrible....almost like the kiwi's were rotten or something. Not sour or sweet at all...just very, very bitter.
I was about to ask for a new, replacement drink when my Japanese friends said I can't replace, that its Japanese culture to just accept the drink and pay for it...and if I want a new one, I have to pay for that as well.
In America, they'd replace your drink (or food) free of charge.
But back to the story....that took place in the inaka. My cousin in Tokyo told me that in bigger cities most places would give you the service of replacing something you ordered free of charge. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Yawarakaijin wrote: |
Whenever I ask anyone one to simplify something for me with "easy" Japanese I more often than not get just a bunch of hmmmm's and haaaa's. |
I totally know what you mean! This used to drive me crazy.
| Quote: |
Whenever I ask what a certain Japanese word means, or have someone try to explain something, it seems almost impossible to them. They get this blank look, or a look where they look off into space and there's atleast a 10 second pause. It was a bit frustrating and funny at first...but I think I'm use to this kind of reaction now.
I also think it has to do with the difference to languages. I'm not expert, but it seems like English is more fluid and little things can be explained a lot easier, and bigger things can be broken down easily. ~when you read a sentence and come upon an unknown word, you can sometimes come up with the meaning by picking apart the sentence. |
It's NOT impossible to explain things simply in Japanese. It is in fact, just as easy as in English. I have no idea why, but Japanese people just seem to suck at doing it for the most part. I really really don't think it's a difference in the languistic structure that's to blame. I mean, I can think of lots of ways to explain what a pine tree is or a ryoshusho is in simple Japanese. I have wondered myself why this seems to be hard for Japanese people to grasp.
| Quote: |
| In America, they'd replace your drink (or food) free of charge. |
Yup that's exactly what I am talking about. Japanese service is very good about sticking to protocol, and it's all very smooth - as long as all goes according to plan. But as soon as something goes wrong, I'd much prefer the american way, where people are flexible enough to just do whatever it takes to make the customer happy. In Japan, if you're not satisfied, somehow it's your fault
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azarashi sushi
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Shinjuku
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd much prefer the american way, where people are flexible enough to just do whatever it takes to make the customer happy. In Japan, if you're not satisfied, somehow it's your fault |
This hasn't been my experience in Japan at all... but maybe it's a difference between the inaka and Tokyo.
Last year I bought a video camera at Yodobashi Camera. It was a perfectly good camera and I used it quite a bit filming various things. About a month down the track I went to download the footage I had filmed and realised I couldn't do it because the camera wasn't compatible with my stupid iMac computer. You can only download to a Mac via a firewire cable which of course this camera didn't have.
I had resigned myself to the fact that I had pretty much thrown 85000 yen down the toilet when my friend suggested that we go back to the shop and explain the situation. So we did. We went back the shop and explained the situation VERY, VERY HUMBLY and asked if it would be possible to exchange the camera. I had the box it came in but no receipt. Much to my surprise, she said yes! And actualy I got a much better camera the second time around! Mind you, we did spend a while in the shop waiting for a woman sales assistant to come along... We figured a woman would be more likely to do it than a man.
TK4Lakers... I just wonder if in your situation your Japanese friends were worried that it would be rude to tell the waiter/barman that you simply didn't like the drink they had made for you. Perhaps if you had taken the angle "Oh I didn't realise it was THIS variety of kiwi fruit that you were going to use. I happen to be allergic to this kind. The only kind my body can tolerate are ones grown on the south island of New Zealand. I'm very, very sorry", it might have been ok. Maybe.
| Quote: |
| "We are sorry sir, very sorry" |
Gaijinalways... I find though, this works both ways. I've been in a few sticky situations and managed to get out of it with just a "I'm very, very sorry".
Sunday night I was in a bar and accidentally knocked a drink all over a guy's trousers. It was a bit of a mess and he wasn't too happy but a humble "I'm very, very sorry" managed to smooth over the situation.
I also once manged to crash my bike into an oncoming car. It was totally my fault but because I was on a bike and he was in a car, that automatically made it his fault. I felt very bad about the whole thing and again a very humble apology got me out of the situation. |
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luckyloser700
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
It's NOT impossible to explain things simply in Japanese. It is in fact, just as easy as in English. I have no idea why, but Japanese people just seem to suck at doing it for the most part. I really really don't think it's a difference in the languistic structure that's to blame. I mean, I can think of lots of ways to explain what a pine tree is or a ryoshusho is in simple Japanese. I have wondered myself why this seems to be hard for Japanese people to grasp. |
What gets me is how the Japanese think that so many words and phrases don't translate into other languages. It's as if they think their way of thinking is so unique and translating words or phrases associated with that thinking somehow dirties the meaning. Some examples are
"mottainai" and "shouganai".
I saw a program all about the "wonders" of the Japanese language that talked about these and other words and phrases.
I was having lunch with a friend and her child about a year ago and had a conversation that went something like this:
J friend: "Kana, gohan mada nokotteru. hayaku tabena."
"Kana, hurry up and finish your meal."
Kana: "gochisou sama."
"thanks for the food (I'm finished)"
J friend: "mou tabenai no?"
"won't you eat any more?"
Kana: "tabenai no!"
"I'm not going to eat any more!"
J friend: "mottainai."
"what a waste (of food)"
Kana: (says nothing)
J friend (to me): "mottainai eigo de nan to iu kanaa?"
"I wonder how to say 'mottainai' in English"
Me: "'What a waste' to iu."
"You say 'what a waste'."
J friend: "sou kanaa? sonnani kantan ja nai to omou. eigo
no kotoba ga nai to omou. Nihon no kangaekata
dakara ne."
"Hmm. I wonder. The meaning isn't that simple, I think. I think
there isn't really a way to say it in English because it's part of
the Japanese way of thinking."
Drives me f'ing nuts sometimes. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. I wonder. The meaning isn't that simple, I think. I think
there isn't really a way to say it in English because it's part of
the Japanese way of thinking." |
That just sounds like a poor translation attempt 
Of course, some expressions are harder to translate depending on the situation, but professional interpreters and translators manage every day.
You see that with translating 'tachiyomi', because the expression is so long in English. 'Shoganai' is a another tough one, though I think because it is more like it means 'I won't help you' rather than 'it can't be helped' in some situations.
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| I find though, this works both ways. I've been in a few sticky situations and managed to get out of it with just a "I'm very, very sorry". |
Good cultural point Azarashi Suishi, a bit off topic though. Good for another thread, taking the Japanese route to smooth things over.  |
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