Job Discussion Forums

[once again]

I have seen many posts here about where is the best place to earn money. Never have I seen anyone reply that Hong Kong may be an option. Why is that?

[Wolf]

I can only guess, but here goes:

HKs economy hasn't been the greatest for a while.

Small market (Isn't the population less than 7 million?)

Actual qualifications seem to be required.

Shenzen (at least in part.)

Perhaps a prolonged case of 1997-itis?

But these would only be guesses.

[Jess_Laoshi]

There are also a lot more English speakers (not just foreigners either) in Hong Kong already than there are in other parts of Asia.

[wanderlust1066]

I think you are right in your observation, but I also think it only holds for this wierd forum here (or at least for the 'China' section).

Not many people who work in China could ever even get a toilet cleaning job in HK for, as you know, qualifications are required BY IMMIGRATION and EMB and not by some dodgy business 'syndicate' (of the type that commonly 'runs' 'language' 'schools' in that big, bad wasteland commonly referred to as 'China'). Thus, talk of HK becomes a uncomfortable subject for teachers in China. Imagine having to work up to 40 hours a WEEK for as little as 15,000 RMB a MONTH! Do the sums, the hourly rate is really quite an insult and has little if any relation to the amount of dosh the 'school' owners make from the teachers' classes. Then imagine that 'teacher' (read 'person') seeing that new, freshly qualified NETs in HK START on as much as 30,000 HK dollars a month (that's 33,000 Yuan) and then get 13,000 HK dollars a month housing allowance, and all this for 10 or 15 (contact) hours a week. PLus, of course, let's not forget the holidays! I get paid 12 times a year but only work 9 months a year. That's 90 days PAID holiday a year!

Not many 'regional managers' in China come close to this package. And they know it. That's why they don't discuss it.

If they COULD get the HK package, surely more of them WOULD......?

They are not bad BECAUSE they are in China, that is a common misconception. They are in China BECAUSE they are bad. Remember, eat or be eaten.

The problem is, most 'teachers' in China (and the decent ones who are there are as embarrassed as everyone else is about the 'standards' of recruitment in China) have already been eaten and spat out three or four times before.

[Roger]

China: "Birds stop flying at its borders with the rest of the world"
"No serious job offers, mickey mouse money/toilet paper"
Expat teachers in China: "Scum of the Earth", "hopeless mercenaries"

Paraphrased from "wanderlust's" various posts! Now what do these comments tell us about the person wanderlust?

In my humble opinion, HK is part of China, and there is not that much different between the two jurisdictions. The longer you remain in HK, the more you must realise the mainland is catching up, and is going to overtake you. Ask HK's civil servants, expats (not NET's, obviously!), foreign domestic helpers, visitors and businesspeople - HK has lifted itself out of any market and is simply enjoying a free ride for some time yet - until it finds out it is lagging behind Shanghai or even Shenzhen.
I am surprised to learn that NET's these days make $ 30'000 PLUS the housing allowance of 13'000 - to my knowledge, teachers have seen a reduction to their formerly high pay levels. Besides, hundreds of local teachers have been laid off, or are going to lose their jobs. HK an Eldorado?

The currency issue:
So long as one of the few world leaders the community of nations accept has to plead with the mainland Chinese to please, please revalue *upwardly) their currency so that Americans can go back to work, it can't be such a bad currency! My goodness, am I glad I get paid in a currency in which I have more faith than in America's yoyo!
But, my school offers me a choice of currencies at no extra cost.
salaries in the mainland have been increasing by leaps and bounds. In my case, I have been offered ten to 30% higher pay every year for the past 5 years, both in monthly salaries and in hourly wages. Most of it taxfree.
Then, compare like with likes, please! If you are bragging about high incomes in HK for low numbers of contact hours, please add commutes, teacher meetings and your administrative overtime! If you have none of these, then you are no NET.
From other NET's we know - through this forum as well as through EDUCATION supplement in the SCMP that all is not roses in HK. Commuting to two different schools. Working on Saturdays. Not knowing when your holidays begin.
Apart from real issues such as violence against teachers (including a female Aussie), legal problems, social harmony with local colleagues. Burn-out rate seems to be at least as high as over the border.

Now let me add my personal reasons for no longer working in HK - remember, once again's question was: Why not HK?
I taught at an international school, and I had a very good time, teaching not English but other languages to expat kids and students whose parents thought they were going to move to Europe. I had a very handsome salary, considering the number of lessons I gave, and I did not have to take part in teacher meetings or write reports. My students all passed the final exam - monitored from London (so I could not manipulate their performance in any way), for which I earned a letter of recommendation.
Let me add that teaching a language in all its aspects is probably a bit more challenging than being a NET "discussion partner" in a middle school. If I had to do oral English in HK, I do not know how high the pay would have to be to lure me there - but the current remuneration package is not tempting enough, considering what little HK has to offer me: no space (apart from terribly overused and rubbished country parks), little in the way of interesting historic or other sites, no more quality of life than any big mainland city with their unbearable noise levels, pollution and what not.
I have all I need now - I live in an estate much like that in Discovery Bay on Lantau Island, and I can afford this (but could not afford living in Discovery Bay on a HK NET salary plus commuting on a ferry that charges you $25 a trip to Central).
I have a number of towns to choose from in my neighbourhood, all within easy commuting distance, good for shopping, recreation, touring - a green lung so to speak, no high-rises for miles here, no traffic jams, no honking horns. In fact, if I worked for a mainland public school I would enjoy such benefits almost automatically as most of them have lovely self-contained campuses. I live in a home I bought with my own money.

So, would I want to return to HK? The job I performed previously no longer exists post 2000, HK being in China, and European languages taking a backseat behind Japanese, Mandarin and other Asian languages.
But I have no regrets - I have had some of my most wonderful teaching experiences here.
Money?
HI am afraid I have to be a little nasty: if someone from a supposedly developed nation has to seek a wellpaid job in a developing country it shames that person's home country, not to mention himself/herself!
I am here in a country that includes HK - I do not need a visa to visit HK, but you need a visa to come to the mainland! I am based in one of the most economically dynamic, happening places, and that alone is reward enough to keep me here.
Besides a pay package that allows me to save four fifths of it.

HK - I pick up my mail there once in a while. What else is there to do?
Oh yes, it has got excellent bookshops - try that secondhand bookstore under the travellator in Central!

[Wanbro]

Oh come on, HK's not that bad!!!

There is money to be made here, but from what I understand it's not quite what it used to be in the glory days under the Union Flag!

Unlike a number of places, living here is comfortable. It's cosmopolitan, clean, vibrant and beautiful (comparitively speaking, of course!), by and large things work, and you don't need to worry about constantly boiling water or disinfecting yourself every 10 minutes. You can get your hands on anything you need, from Western toiletries to the lastest box set of 24, and the food is fantastic.

However, getting a decent teaching gig here isn't quite as easy as pitching up and seeing what's around - that tactic may work in many countries, but can be tricky here... It's not cheap to hang around waiting for jobs to become available. Rent (on the island especially) is ludicrous, and if you're living far away, travel certainly isn't gratis. You need qualifications, qualifications, qualifications - and you can be sure they'll be thoroughly checked out. Some NETs may get a whopping salary and great holidays, but not everyone is a NET, and you could be unfortunate enough to settle for a job in a larger language institute (no names, of course...) or for an agent who takes a wide swathe of your pay packet.

The average standard of English here is impressive, and being Asia's economic centre, there are any number of English-speakers around plus dependents keen to charge laughable amounts for 'Conversational English'. As with most of Asia, the decent non-NET jobs have to be sniffed out on the word-of-mouth cycle, which can take a while to get up and running.

I don't think HK is quite the cultural void it's often portrayed to be. I personally find it a fascinating society struggling for an identity - where filthy-rich expats rub shoulders with miserable bag ladies - two ends of the scale, with no communication whatsoever between the two. As a teacher, it's quite hard to work out quite where you fit into this society, where as a white European you're presumed to be a banker/lawyer and rolling in it - you're caught somewhere between the two worlds...

OK, so it's crowded, polluted, noisy, expensive, humid and devoid of ancient buildings... but this is Asia in its most palatable form with skyscrapers slap-bang next to the forest - a pretty unique place to spend some time...