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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| White_Elephant wrote: |
| People forget the fact [or they are ignorant of it] that N. Korea has the fourth largest (and well armed) military in the word. Moreover, they do not need nuclear weapons to cause serious damage to Japan or S. Korea etc. They have a fairly large navy force that is well equipped with biological and chemical weapons. N. Korea's Nuclear capacity should not be as much of a worry considering it's basically in the infancy stage. The rest of their arsonal is another story altogether. |
Yes, they do have one of the largest armies in the World, but it is also one of the least well-fed. People forget the fact [or they are ignorant of it] that although the Japanese are not supposed to have a military their defence expenditure is the fourth highest in the World. As much as North Korea have a million troops they will find it a little difficult to get them across the Sea of Japan/East Sea given that Japan and the US will have air superiority, if not supremacy and any attack on Japan will trigger a devastating counter attack on the Korean peninsula.
In the event of war the United States takes control of the South Korean forces which means that one way or another an attack on Japan will suck the South in. There could, conceivably be a war between the DPRK and the ROK without Japan's involvement but not a war between Japan and North Korea without South Korea's involvement. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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In the event of a war, the North Koreans could make things very hard on anyone living in or near Seoul. In terms of the number of people killed, I have no doubt a war on the peninsula would make Iraq look like a walk in the park.* However, their infrastructure and supply system is such that they have absolutely no chance of winning a prolonged conflict. A full out attack on the South or even missiles against Japan would likely mean the end of North Korea as a nation.
My guess is that their leadership, murderous thugs though they are, is not that stupid.
* I seem to recall the figure of 300,000 rockets and artillery shells an hour estimated for the vicinity of Seoul. |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
Yes, they do have one of the largest armies in the World, but it is also one of the least well-fed.. |
I'm not so sure that was a very good point seeing as armies all throughout history have been able to wage war, even win victoriously, as their military/people weren't especially "well-fed." I think you mean food, right?
| Quote: |
| People forget the fact [or they are ignorant of it] that although the Japanese are not supposed to have a military their defence expenditure is the fourth highest in the World. |
I'm not arguing, but, do you have a source? I have sources that tell me Japan is only spending 1% of their GDP on defense expenditures. Of that amount, most all of it is going to the USA for military protection. Other sources tell me that Japan is spending only about the same as France, Germany and the UK, which is a far cry from that of China and the USA. The difference here is that France, Germany and the UK are in control of their military. They aren't at the mercy of the USA for complete protection against agression.
| Quote: |
As much as North Korea have a million troops they will find it a little difficult to get them across the Sea of Japan/East Sea given that Japan and the US will have air superiority, if not supremacy and any attack on
Japan will trigger a devastating counter attack on the Korean peninsula. |
I'm not so sure Japan will be pulling the trigger on any counter attack. I'm certain Japan would LOVE to do so and I would personally support it. The trouble is they can't do it alone under any circumstance.
In ANY case, Japan will need support from the international community to launch such a counter attack. Can Japan do so in the event of an emergency? That remains to be seen. Japan is having enough trouble trying to gain support for international sanctions in the UN. China is expected to veto Japan's proposal. That's not good! This conflict could get ugly.
Are you forgetting that N. Korea has a large well equipped navy that's always around Japan. They don't need to launch missiles from the mainland when they can do so with ships. I'm not saying the N. Korea would attempt to invade Japan. I AM saying they would definitely call the world's bluff and start launching missiles right at Japan. History has a tendency of repeating itself. JKI is playing cat and mouse.
| Quote: |
| In the event of war the United States takes control of the South Korean forces which means that one way or another an attack on Japan will suck the South in. There could, conceivably be a war between the DPRK and the ROK without Japan's involvement but not a war between Japan and North Korea without South Korea's involvement. |
I seriously doubt that the United States would "take control" of the South Korean forces. This hasn't happened for a long time. As it stands, South Koreans continue to be amazed by JKI's reluctance to head international warnings. Most of those among the younger generation view N. Koreans as their brotheren that they would love to unite with if only the "bully" USA would step away and let this happen. Moreover, this younger generation is very anti-American. There is no way that most of them would be willing to join sides with the USA against their brothers for the benefit of Japan, their arch enemy. Most South Koreans would laugh at such an absurd suggestion. South Korea might very well get sucked into this mess, but HOW is the question. Speaking from experience, the South Korean military is far from being any threat to North Korea. Talk to the US military stationed in South Korea and they can fill you in on the subject. I've been filled in on the subject. Also, I taught hundreds of ROK soldiers and officers. Thus, my opinions are formed. I wouldn't count on those gutless boys to watch my back. |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| shuize wrote: |
In the event of a war, the North Koreans could make things very hard on anyone living in or near Seoul. In terms of the number of people killed, I have no doubt a war on the peninsula would make Iraq look like a walk in the park.* However, their infrastructure and supply system is such that they have absolutely no chance of winning a prolonged conflict. A full out attack on the South or even missiles against Japan would likely mean the end of North Korea as a nation.
My guess is that their leadership, murderous thugs though they are, is not that stupid.
* I seem to recall the figure of 300,000 rockets and artillery shells an hour estimated for the vicinity of Seoul. |
It's nice to imagine the "end of North Korea as a nation," but unfortunately they aren't going to go down without a large fight even if that means millions of their people will starve to death and die. By all accounts, their leader, KJI, is a confirmed "lunatic" who isn't playing with a full deck. I think he is "stupid" enough to shoot missiles at Japan just out of spite. I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Talk with Mr. Abe or listen to what he's trying to warn the world about. His fears are not irrational.
A few things I learned about Koreans and Korean culture. They don't plan and they don't think about severe consequences. They oftentimes cut off their noses to spite their faces. I've seen it happen time and time again. Some people will never learn. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you have raised some interesting points there and I hope I can respond in a satisfying way.
First of all, yes, I was talking about food. Although the North Korean government has a Songun (or army-first) policy, the troops are still fairly malnourished as far as developed-nations' standing armies are concerned. Although the million-man army becomes irrelevant later in your post so it can be skipped over for now.
In reference to the DPRK's navy, navies have been trumped by airpower since, at least World War Two. It doesn't matter what kind of navy North Korea have if they don't have a credible air force.
As far as their airforce is concerned:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/airforce.htm
| Quote: |
| The air force has a marginal capability for defending North Korean airspace and a limited ability to conduct air operations against South Korea. Its strengths are its large numbers of aircraft, a system of well-dispersed and well-protected air facilities, and an effective, if rudimentary, command and control system |
Japan spends 40 billion dollars on military expenditure. Behind only the United States, Russia and Britain (I am going by old figures so China may have overtaken this now). Their weapons systems are state of the art, unlike North Korea's old and generally obsolete airforce.
You say that Japan could not pull the trigger on a wider conflict but that is to forget the fact that the US has 70,000 troops stationed here and they would never sit back and watch one of its most important strategic allies in the region come under attack without getting heavily involved themselves.
The Security Council not being able to agree to Japan's proposals for sanctions has little, if anything, to do with what would happen if North Korea attacked Japan. The Security Council had little, if anything, to do with the United States' invasion of Iraq. If you think that the Security Council will be a decisive figure in the event of a North Korean invasion of Japan then you have far too much faith in its powers.
As far as the United States not taking control of the South Korean forces, this hasn't happened in a long time because the Korean War hasn't been fought in a long time - around fifty years - but you can bet that if this conflict ever heated up again then the US and South Korean forces wouldn't sit on their hands to watch. The US almost certainly would regain control of the South Korean forces and the peninsula would be thrown into war. I don't know how you can see an isolated war between Japan and North Korea ever taking place in this political climate.
| White Elephant wrote: |
| Speaking from experience, the South Korean military is far from being any threat to North Korea. Talk to the US military stationed in South Korea and they can fill you in on the subject. I've been filled in on the subject. Also, I taught hundreds of ROK soldiers and officers. Thus, my opinions are formed. I wouldn't count on those gutless boys to watch my back. |
By the way, your charming appraisal of the South Korean troops probably wouldn't win you too many favours. The South Korean army is not an invasion force but a defensive one. US airpower would completely render any comparison between relative troop strength irrelevant. |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I didn't want to get into a discussion about the whole world food aid program to N. Korea. It's a subject that gets my blood boiling. Point I'd like to make is that the USA has kept N. Korea's military well fed over the years. I'm against this as I believe in starving out an enemy. It's always been a quick way to win against an enemy. Sounds cruel, I know, but it's really not. Anyway, here is some interesting information about this whole subject:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/ns00047t.pdf#search='Food%20north%20Korean%20military'
Now, please let's get back to the real subject of this discussion.
About N. Korea's air force, here's some interesting information about that:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/facility/air_base.htm
| Quote: |
| More than 420 fighters, bombers, transport planes, and helicopters were redeployed in October 1995, with more than 100 aircraft were moved forward to three air bases near the DMZ. More than 20 Il-28 bombers were moved to Taetan which shortened their arrival time to Seoul from 30 minutes to 10 minutes. Over 80 MiG-17s redeployed to Nuchonri and Kuupri are able to attack Seoul in 6 minutes. According to South Korean estimates, these redeployments suggested that North Korea intends to make a first strike with outdated MiG-17s and the second strike with primary fighters such as MiG-21s and Su-25s. |
My point, don't miscount the capablity of this air force or try to write it off as a non-threat.
Where are you getting your figures about Japan's military expenditures? How old is that source. You said 40 billion. That must be an old source as Japan has been scaling back on military expenditures and down to the tune of about 28 billion, especially since the wake of the 1997 stock market crisis. FYI, China is spending over 250 billion a year on military expenditures. Hmmm, makes me wonder. Are they planning something? Do they intend to help N. Korea? One can only wonder. The thought is not so far-fetched from possiblility. Remember, that the USA is not one to get into a tangled mess with China, especially at this critical time.
Where are you getting your estimate that there are 70,000 US troops in Japan? All my latest sources say about 40,000. For many years, Japan has been trying to decrease the number of US military stationed in Japan.
My friend you are mistaken about this
| Quote: |
| As far as the United States not taking control of the South Korean forces, this hasn't happened in a long time because the Korean War hasn't been fought in a long time - around fifty years |
Actually the US military has been in control of the South Korean military for most of the time since the Korean war. It's only been fairly recent that they have allowed South Korea to take over its own military. This is what South Korea wanted and that is what they have now. However, the US military is constantly (trying) to train S. Korea military soldiers. I've heard a few stories. Anyway, I stand firm in my statement that, " I wouldn't count on those gutless boys to watch my back." I'm not trying to win any "favours." I don't pull punches. I'm just calling a spade a spade. There's plenty of US service men who feel the same as I do concerning this matter and they've seen the proof. There's no sane person in South Korea who would claim that South Korea's military is such a formidable force as to defend itself against N. Korea.
In the end, it will NOT be any military force whatsoever who makes the decision to act against N. Korea regardless of what they do. Most likely GWB would get a wake up call that would prompt him to make an immediate decision. My guess, at this point, is that he would sit on his hands afraid of losing the war in Iraq and what China's counter measure would be.
I hate to say it, but Japan is in some thick mud right now and all we can do is wait to see what will happen. Hopefully, JKI will take his prozac and everything will be okay. We can all hope  |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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This is getting a little tiresome when half of what you post contradicts the other half.
First you post this:
| White Elephant wrote: |
| I seriously doubt that the United States would "take control" of the South Korean forces. This hasn't happened for a long time. |
Then you post this:
| White Elephant wrote: |
| Actually the US military has been in control of the South Korean military for most of the time since the Korean war. It's only been fairly recent that they have allowed South Korea to take over its own military. |
Also, you seem to have moved on from the Formidable-North-Korean-Navy theory (understandably as it was a poor argument) to the Formidable-North-Korean-Airforce theory. Unfortunately you have used sources that don't bear out your argument well.
| Quote: |
| More than 420 fighters, bombers, transport planes, and helicopters were redeployed in October 1995, with more than 100 aircraft were moved forward to three air bases near the DMZ. More than 20 Il-28 bombers were moved to Taetan which shortened their arrival time to Seoul from 30 minutes to 10 minutes. Over 80 MiG-17s redeployed to Nuchonri and Kuupri are able to attack Seoul in 6 minutes. According to South Korean estimates, these redeployments suggested that North Korea intends to make a first strike with outdated MiG-17s and the second strike with primary fighters such as MiG-21s and Su-25s. |
I'm not calling it a complete non-threat but I would consider the North Korean airforce to be seriously lacking when it comes to tackling F-15s and F-18s with AWACS support. For the record, here are a few pictures of North Korea's airforce:
Il-28s
A "primary" fighter Mig 21
The outdated Mig 17
By the way, the source you quote assumes a strike would be made against their South Korean bretheren (which they've never done before - unless you count the Korean War, of course!), obviously you know something they don't.
| White Elephant wrote: |
There's no sane person in South Korea who would claim that South Korea's military is such a formidable force as to defend itself against N. Korea.
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I agree that North Korea's forces could over run the South. Although one of the surest ways in which they would lose this war would be to take on Japan when its whole military is geared toward an advance on South Korea.
Any attack on Japan would mean destruction for Kim Il Jong. In the unlikely event that Japan didn't beat North Korea by conventional means or the United States didn't come to Japan's aid Japan will just put a few of its owns nukes together rub out Pyongyang. If you are saying that China would also join in on North Korea's escapade then almost certainly so too would the US. This would lead eventually to total nuclear conflict. Which means it wouldn't matter where you were in the World you'll still get to see the fireworks.
All the major players here have far too much to lose. China doesn't want to have North Korea collapse and ruin its economic ascendence. The US and Japan don't want to go to war with North Korea because of the obvious costs involved. South Korea doesn't want to get pounded - and this would happen in any war that starts in the peninsula.
Not even Kim Il Jong wants this, so his tough talk of serious consequences to Japan will be just that - talk. |
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Big John Stud
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
Big John Stud: If you edit the parentheses off the address, it will be easier to link to.
By the way, here's my current favourite site:
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm |
Thanks for the advice and this web-site. It is always interesting to read the perspectives of a country at odds with the west! |
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Big John Stud
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Indiana Jones wrote: |
Just because Bush-Co are hypocrites for condemning North Korea's nuclear weapons tests doesn't change the fact that Kim Jong II is a tyrannical lunatic. Americans get the chance to oust their tyrannical lunatic at the next election (but he's out anyway, right?). Do the North Korean people get the same chance? Nope, they're stick with a tyrannical lunatic, and once he falls over dead, Kim Jong junior takes over and keeps the propaganda parade marching ...
America may be hypocritical, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that North Korea is seriously misbehaving and needs to be stopped. |
Too funny for words!! 
One how did bush win the first election? Not by popular vote! Two Americans are kept ignorant about the world. Bush lied to start a second war which is costing many lives and billions of dollars yet was re-elected.
I am not saying Kim Jong Il is good, but bush is worse! What he has done in the middle east is completely unforgiveable. This may be the U.S. down fall. The cost of occupying Iraq along with making many other countries paranoid of the U.S. may be too much. The U.S. declare victory and pull out like in Vietnam. Because unlike Vietnam the U.S. had been attacked. If the U.S. pulls out of Iraq, Osama will finally have his own country!
Before the invasion Osama and Iraq were at odds. But thanks for Bush, now there is a connection. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| White Elephant wrote: |
FYI, China is spending over 250 billion a year on military expenditures. Hmmm, makes me wonder. Are they planning something? Do they intend to help N. Korea? One can only wonder. The thought is not so far-fetched from possiblility. Remember, that the USA is not one to get into a tangled mess with China, especially at this critical time.
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I don't think the Chinese view the nuclear tests positively at all. Just as the US doesn't want to get into a tangled mess with China, neither does China want to get into a tangled mess with the World's leading superpower that spends some 400 billion dollars annually on its military, including a huge array of ICBMs that would devestate China. China has become a country far too satisfied with its trading relations to jeopardize its economy on a costly (or, as I said, devestating war). If it would undertake any conflict at all it would be over Taiwan, not trying to help North Korea settle a score with Japan.
It is far more likely that if China does have any strategy regarding North Korea it would be to reign in the little nutcase regime, possibly going as far as to start a coup with the aim of replacing Kim Jong-il with a more reliable dictator. China could use the excuse of instigating regime change on humanitarian and global security grounds. At this moment, the out-of-favour Kim junior (the guy who took an unauthorised trip to Tokyo Disneyland) is a resident of Beijing. If you think that Kim Jong-il commands unimpeachable loyalty from the powers-that-be in North Korea then it would be worth remembering that The Great Leader Kim il-Sung is still technically the President (although dead) and we are now in the 95th year of Juche dating back to the elder Kim's birth. It's believed that Kim Jong-il is not highly regarded within the Pyongyang government (the fact that he is only the Dear Leader and has never truly succeeded to his father's status of president is one clue to this).
China would almost certainly want to retain its buffer state as it now is - or rather as it was until a few years ago. A Beijing-backed coup could well produce this result. |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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furiousmilksheikali,
| Quote: |
| In the unlikely event that Japan didn't beat North Korea by conventional means or the United States didn't come to Japan's aid Japan will just put a few of its owns nukes together rub out Pyongyang. |
You must be living in a world of fantasy and fiction. You keep viewing this as a win/lose video game war situation. What I have been trying to say all along is that N. Korea can still cause a LOT of damage even if they don't "win." This is not a video game where the winner takes all and no one gets hurt. Do you understand the game of cat and mouse? KJI is like the mouse that keeps coming out just to test the cat [the USA] because he doesn't think the it will harm him.
North Korea has plenty of WMD's such as their No-Dong missiles that can certainly be launched from ships on the open sea. Can they hit Japan with those? Absolutely! Can they cause considerable damage? I'm sure they can. I'm not an expert on war arsenal but I found this article and maybe an engineer or scientist can explain just what kind of damage the No-Dong's can do to a city like Tokyo or Osaka. Here it is:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/nd-b1-specs.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/nd-b.htm
I think we are underestimating N. Korea. So what if they don't "win."
Seems to me that KJI will be looking for retaliation against Japan because of their stance on sanctions in the UN as well as their decision not to allow N. Korean ships within the Japanese territory or allow imports of N. Korea goods to Japan. KJI views this as a "declaration of war." This is why I believe he will possibly attack Japan well before he tries anything with S. Korea. He can't afford to cut off S. Korean aid altogether |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| White_Elephant wrote: |
You must be living in a world of fantasy and fiction. You keep viewing this as a win/lose video game war situation. What I have been trying to say all along is that N. Korea can still cause a LOT of damage even if they don't "win." This is not a video game where the winner takes all and no one gets hurt. Do you understand the game of cat and mouse? KJI is like the mouse that keeps coming out just to test the cat [the USA] because he doesn't think the it will harm him.
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I think what you have been trying to say is that North Korea will attack Japan as if it had nothing to do with South Korea and that an attack would be worth launching as retaliation for Japanese sanctions. This is absurd and I think you need a reality check yourself. It would do North Korea no good whatsoever to mount such an attack and all aid from the South would almost certainly be suspended. If you were simply trying to say that North Korea could do serious damage to Japan (which you weren't) then of course they could. They won't though, if Kim Jong il wants to remain in power.
| Quote: |
| North Korea has plenty of WMD's such as their No-Dong missiles that can certainly be launched from ships on the open sea. Can they hit Japan with those? Absolutely! Can they cause considerable damage? I'm sure they can. I'm not an expert on war arsenal but I found this article and maybe an engineer or scientist can explain just what kind of damage the No-Dong's can do to a city like Tokyo or Osaka. |
I agree with all of this except the use of the possessive apostrophe in "WMD's".
| Quote: |
I think we are underestimating N. Korea. So what if they don't "win."
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Maybe you are. There will be a very big deal if they launch an attack that would result in devestating consequences.
White Elephant you have been very disingenuous with your argument and it has constantly shifted from making a big deal of the million-man army (how would they get to Japan? Swim?)
The arms expenditure of China: There's no point quoting it unless you think China would back a North Korean attack on Japan.
I will restate my position that a military attack on Japan is highly unlikely and if undertaken would be done in conjunction with an attack on South Korea. If the North did not invade the South simultaneously it would lose the initiative and be liable to massive retaliation. The only way the North could possibly gain anything is for an attack on the South's postitions in a first-strike. |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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reality check:
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In contrast to South Korea, Japan reacted swiftly to the reports of the North Korean nuclear test by imposing a ban on imports and ships from North Korea.
In response, a North Korean official warned Thursday that the government would take �strong countermeasures� against Japan if it carried out the ban.
�The specific contents will become clear if you keep watching,� Song Il-ho, the North Korean ambassador in charge of relations with Japan, told the Kyodo news agency in Pyongyang, North Korea�s capital. �We never speak empty words.�
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/world/asia/13seoul.html?_r=1&ref=asia&oref=slogin |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I will restate my position that a military attack on Japan is highly unlikely and if undertaken would be done in conjunction with an attack on South Korea. |
I wouldn't be surprised if some half-way measure was taken by North Korea. A lesser attack, say, a ship full of explosives - non-nuclear, on a Japanese port, or shipping interests. Or some kind of 'accident'. Not saying that it is likely, but it's a danger. Not quite enough to warrant a large-scale response - not while Seoul is still held hostage by artillery. But, just enough to poke at Japan if NK wants too.
Japan might have sensed that too and insisted on no NK ships entering it's ports as a punitive (defensive?) sanction. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| White_Elephant wrote: |
reality check:
| Quote: |
In contrast to South Korea, Japan reacted swiftly to the reports of the North Korean nuclear test by imposing a ban on imports and ships from North Korea.
In response, a North Korean official warned Thursday that the government would take �strong countermeasures� against Japan if it carried out the ban.
�The specific contents will become clear if you keep watching,� Song Il-ho, the North Korean ambassador in charge of relations with Japan, told the Kyodo news agency in Pyongyang, North Korea�s capital. �We never speak empty words.�
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/world/asia/13seoul.html?_r=1&ref=asia&oref=slogin |
If you believe all the rhetoric you hear from North Korea then you really are naive. They've previously spoken of turning Seoul into a "sea of fire".
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=97785073
| Quote: |
Seoul, 19 March 1994: People watching the evening news
are terrified. The network stations repeatedly show Park Yong
Soo, the North Korean representative at the eighth working-level
meeting between North and South Korea at Panmunjom, retort-
ing angrily to Song Yong Dae, his South Korean counterpart.
"Seoul is not far from here," he declares, "If there is a war, it will
become a sea of fire." The next day disturbing headlines splash
across the morning and evening newspapers: "Seoul will become
a sea of fire." |
So much for "brotherly love". |
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