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Aggravated by visitors, �friends� from home rant�
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White_Elephant



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mchristophermsw wrote:

From a Therapist perspective, mabe it had nothing to do with their believe but maybe they had a personality disorder.....just by reading your story it would be easy to Diagnose them from the DSM Laughing


Please do!!! I'd LOVE to see this here. Very Happy Help me try and understand their "personality disorder." Laughing
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White_Elephant



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon wrote:
I think these "friends of the family" were just rude, regardless of their religion. To say "Christians are all...." is being just as stupid as they are.


Who said that? What I said was:
Quote:
I don�t want to be around another Christian for a LONG time, especially while I�m overseas
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Bible-thumpers,' like fundamentalist believers of other persuasions, do tend to be sometimes overly judgemental when they think someone doesn't agree entirely with their personal beliefs.

But, on a more interesting note: Good on yer mum!! That was a great show of understanding and support for you. Your parents probably didn't sic the friends on you - there would be some social pressure to make your family member available in such a situation. But it's really fantastic that she is clearly on your side after your bad experience.

I think you were actually very patient with the visitors, continuing to try to work with them even after the unpleasantness began.
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true, I think I sometimes have the same effect on my students Laughing when I complain about their work in my classes!
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White_Elephant



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
'Bible-thumpers,' like fundamentalist believers of other persuasions, do tend to be sometimes overly judgemental when they think someone doesn't agree entirely with their personal beliefs.

But, on a more interesting note: Good on yer mum!! That was a great show of understanding and support for you. Your parents probably didn't sic the friends on you - there would be some social pressure to make your family member available in such a situation. But it's really fantastic that she is clearly on your side after your bad experience.

I think you were actually very patient with the visitors, continuing to try to work with them even after the unpleasantness began.


This is spot on! Yes, my mother would have been proud of me for being patient - almost to the point of Gandhi likeness. Few people would have tolerated this type of abuse for five minutes, let alone hours, days.

What really gets me is all her preaching about Christianity and then she goes and steals a picture that I paid 10 bucks for. Maybe she thinks it's okay to steal the picture if she just repents to god and asks for forgiveness. This will smooth over her sin.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you'll have to chalk up the cost of the picture to experience, I suppose. Or you could consider it postal costs for the stuff they brought you from home, I guess.
Nothing's really free!!
Anyway, while I think this has been a pretty interesting and pertinent post to one of the pitfalls of living abroad (The Clueless Visitor Who Manages to Offend Just About Everyone), I guess I think the situation has come out in your favor in the end - thanks to your mother's understanding and support. This might ultimately give your parents a little better perspective into your life and situation, and it elicited a real expression of support for you on the part of your parents. That's worth a lot.

I've had a couple of experiences with Guests from Hell, from different perspectives. Probably many of us have. It doesn't always work out so well in the end, either....
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Eva Pilot



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Far West of the Far East

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have lost my self control a lot sooner than you, you did great.

I would have ended up leaving them to do whatever they want on their own, and telling them to piss off.
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

White_Elephant wrote:
spiral78 wrote:
'Bible-thumpers,' like fundamentalist believers of other persuasions, do tend to be sometimes overly judgemental when they think someone doesn't agree entirely with their personal beliefs.

But, on a more interesting note: Good on yer mum!! That was a great show of understanding and support for you. Your parents probably didn't sic the friends on you - there would be some social pressure to make your family member available in such a situation. But it's really fantastic that she is clearly on your side after your bad experience.

I think you were actually very patient with the visitors, continuing to try to work with them even after the unpleasantness began.


This is spot on! Yes, my mother would have been proud of me for being patient - almost to the point of Gandhi likeness. Few people would have tolerated this type of abuse for five minutes, let alone hours, days.

What really gets me is all her preaching about Christianity and then she goes and steals a picture that I paid 10 bucks for. Maybe she thinks it's okay to steal the picture if she just repents to god and asks for forgiveness. This will smooth over her sin.


One little thing, WE,
I understand you went through a kind of fairly extreme abuse (considering it was from relatives...)
Be careful, though, that you don't become confident that you are right in rejecting Christianity, just because some people have a poor understanding of the faith - or express it poorly, or espouse a juvenile version of it. The end result would be you defeating a straw man (a 2nd-grader's version of Christianity) and not really understanding it, but believing that you did.
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White_Elephant



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rusmeister wrote:


One little thing, WE,
I understand you went through a kind of fairly extreme abuse (considering it was from relatives...)
Be careful, though, that you don't become confident that you are right in rejecting Christianity, just because some people have a poor understanding of the faith - or express it poorly, or espouse a juvenile version of it. The end result would be you defeating a straw man (a 2nd-grader's version of Christianity) and not really understanding it, but believing that you did.


I've said repeatedly that these people were not my relatives. They are now considered x-friends of the family. Also, I don't know how many times I have to tell Christians that I have my own beliefs and I'm perfectly content with them. Why is it that Christians don't seem to understand this? Why would you assume that I would reject a religion because of what two people have done? FYI, I use to be Christian growing up in many different churches. I don't believe in it anymore. I have gone a different direction. I'm happy now. End of story.

Christians have a tendency to keep pushing endlessly and all it does is make me angry because I see this as a complete lack of respect for me and my own devout beliefs. You know, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and most Muslims don't do this. I'm much more apt to visit their temples, mosques, synagogues, meetings etc. In fact, I do visit them on my travels and while I was home. It's interesting. I feel more educated and enlightened by doing so. In those places, I have never experienced people trying to push their religion on me like I've experienced time and time again from Christians of various different sects.
_________________________

This is an email I just sent to my mother:

She gave me the stuff. Thank you. However, it wasn't worth this kind of headache and it would have been better to let her go and mail me those things. I have the Kodak camera but she didn't take many pictures as we only went to ... World. I'll take it to Thailand with me and take some pictures there. I live over an hour away by subway from the hotel where she was at and she was too busy with her own things at the conference. She didn't want to take hardly any time at all to be with me. In fact, she called me today and the conversation when like this:

Her: I'm leaving tomorrow and I will leave your picture at the hotel information but you should pick it up ASAP because I don't think they will hold on to it for very long.
Me: Lin.. you have known that I am going to Thailand tomorrow first thing in the morning.
Her: Yeah I know so why don't you come over tonight and pick it up?
Me: Because I don't have time....
Her: [interupts me] Why not? What do you have to do anyway?
Me: Lin.., I told you I have to teach classes tonight and I have a million things I have to do tonight to get ready for my trip tomorrow.
Her: Like what? Pack? Big deal. I have a million things I have to do tonight too.
Me: Lin.. you had no right to take my picture in the first place.
Her: Well, it's your fault for leaving me there in the Burger King.
Me: Lin.., I demanded my picture back at the Burger King and we were right next to the hotel where you left it. Now you want me to go all the way back down there? You told me at the Burger King that you weren't going to give it back to me until you got back to the USA. You keep changing your stories. Anyway, why would I want to go to the race track with you when you kept being so abusive towards me, very very insulting.
Her: OH, you weren't being abused. I never abused you. I was as nice as I could be trying to show YOU a good time.
Me: [laughing] You come to my country as a guest and you think you can show ME around. That's a real joke. I was the one who told you about the few things to do here. You don't know your way around this country. I took YOU to ... World. Don't try to twist this around. And you did so abuse me.
Her: Oh I did NOT. You were the one ..
Me: You know what Lin.. you need a mirror. You can't see yourself. If I had known about that fight you had with my mother I would have NEVER EVER even considered telling you about anything in this country and taking you to ... World would have been out of the question.
Her: Well, I'm not going to listen to this. I'm going to leave your picture at the desk.
Me: I'm not going to be back until the end of October so you can take that picture and shove it up your ass.

Mom, after that, I called her a few choice names. I could not help it. My gawd she is rotten nasty selfish etc. etc. You know what. When I yelled at her she acted like it was no big deal and that she's heard it all before. My guess is that she treats her family this way and they react back at her the way I did. She's use to it. People like that will never change. She's twisted and has a serious personality disorder.
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WE, I believe you are the equivalent of some sort of saint. I think I couldn't tolerate someone like this for more than 1 minute. It's one thing to get abuse from someone who you feel is a moron on the Internet, but someone who claims to be a friend of your Mother's and then acts like this?! Like you said, people like this give religion a bad name.

As to not getting the third degree from non-Christian religions, I think oher missionaries are less common. I have seen Muslum zealots, but of course they tend to be a little more physically dangerous if you attract their attention.


Last edited by gaijinalways on Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, what is your religion, you seem to be a bit coy in stating what it is? Just curious, like you, I was raised Christian, currently consider myself more of naturalist, find God in nature.
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White_Elephant



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinalways wrote:
BTW, what is your religion, you seem to be a bit coy in stating what it is? Just curious, like you, I was raised Christian, currently consider myself more of naturalist, find God in nature.

Read these books:

http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Power-Through-Awareness-Guidebook/dp/0915811049

and this one too:

http://fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=3406

They changed my life!
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JAppleby



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to stick in a defense of Christians here. I am Christian (Catholic, grew up Catholic and Methodist), but am completely open to others believing whatever they want to. I figure if someone's a generally good person, it doesn't really matter what they believe. I think you might be using the word "Christians" when you might actually mean "Evangelicals." Not all Christians are out to impose their personal beliefs on the world.
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Sheikh Inal Ovar



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the smug omniscience that puts me off certain religious types ... behind it all they believe they are right ... they like to say such things as

"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."

.. despite the fact that we all know this doesn't prove there is a god ... but only a concept of god ... a concept in which atheists choose not to believe ...
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheikh Inal Ovar wrote:
It's the smug omniscience that puts me off certain religious types ... behind it all they believe they are right ... they like to say such things as

"If there were no God, there would be no atheists."

.. despite the fact that we all know this doesn't prove there is a god ... but only a concept of god ... a concept in which atheists choose not to believe ...


Reading Chesterton would reveal humility rather than 'smug omniscience' in his writings (regarding the first quote). Even that quote comes from a relentless logical trail. But I am not one to 'shove my faith down anyone's throat'.
But there are only two possibilities, really. Either nobody is right and none of our philosophies matter, or some are right and others are wrong (or at least closer to or farther from the truth).
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