Job Discussion Forums

[Leon30]

Hi. I've taught in South Korea for over two years now and am looking for a change. To be honest I love it here, my lifestyle is great, I have a great job at a public high school, stuff like gym membership is cheap, food is cheap etc. To sum it up, life is V good here.

BUT. And it is a big BUT... The dating scene truly sucks these days. And I'm not just out looking for easy one night stands. Because I have done that here and it's easy enough if you're persistant.

Rather, I want to find a nice, non screwed up, non neurotic girlfriend with whom I can build a nice, long term relationship. I did have this in Korea before, once with an American girl and once with a Korean girl.

But these days, I swear it's getting tougher. All the girls have started getting really hard to get or just English Practicers. The ones who do want to date merely want someone TALL or RICH.

So, as I understand it, I'll work more classes in Japan (Currently teaching 18 fifty min classes a week.) Even with my experience at a Korean Public High School I'm pretty sure I'd have to start at an ekiewa right...? Will spend a few grand setting up and will have a smaller apartment (currently have a downtown two bedroomed place to myself, cieling fan in living room, remote control aircon in bedroom, kitchen and a balcony... all paid for by the school..) And I'll most likely save a lot less (currently saving around $1,200 US a month and living very well of the $1,000 I have left over. I clear 2,150,000 Won - aprox 215,000 Yen...)

All that said and done, I'm considering giving it all up as I NEED a bit more out of life... Plus, I actually like teaching English over here in Asia. Just sick of the dating scene here. I waste so much time going out on dates and starting to like girs who are either psychopathically hung up on ex b'friends (seems it takes Korean girls a LONG time to get over western exes...about FIVE YEARS...) only want to be friends or only want english practice. Then you see real hotties out with 40 yr old fat, balding guys, just because they're rich. Or with total meatheads who treat them like shit just because they're TALL...! Seriously, when asked what they look for in a guy, many Koreans have replied simply "TALL."

So, anyway, I know no country is perfect but...really, how is the dating scene in cities like Tokyo or Osaka (I would only work in a major city?)

I heard from many people that almost every western teacher out there has a girlfriend. Now, that doesn't translate that I can't get a g'friend anywhere else so want to come to Japan as I'm desperate, as I can and have, just what are the girls like there...?

Just looking for fun...? Some kind of 'cool' status for being with a westerner... (I highly doubt this myself, but just thought I'd throw it all out there...) just a bit off blowing off steam with a foriegner before getting serious and married to a Japanese guy....

Or are there better chances of meeting a nice, non complicated girl who's looking for a decent long term relationship....?

Another thing -

I had a Japanese girlfriend at uni. Thought she really liked me for Me. I broke up with her as I was to busy with college at the time. Three months later she was ENGAGED to another english guy....! Seemed she just wanted a boyfriend, ANY boyfriend. I'm a romantic and want someone who wants to be with someone who wants to be with them and they want Me, not just ANYONE etc... Do a lot of the girls just want ANYONE as they think westerners will treat them more equally or something. I really don't know much about the dating scene in Japan and I know you CANNOT generalise about everything, so I'm just asking everything I can think of.

Any info about the dating scene in Japan would be very much appreciated....!!! and sorry if my message is too long, or lots of spelling and typo mistakes.... I'm writing it off the cuff at my desk as I gotta get out of here in like five minutes...

You can reply by posting here or pm me (not sure how that works though) or email me at [email protected]

Cheers...

[Leon30]

I would also like to add, that I speak basic Japanese, enjoy the language and find it easier to learn than Korean (A language I find it hard to get into.) and would study it whilst living in Japan. I have visited Japan beofre and really enjoyed my time there and the feeling I got from the cities (Osaka and Fukuoka.) I am interested in the culture, conversant with some Japanese literature and cinema and like the food a lot. Just in case people post replies thinking I would take the huge step of moving to a new country just for the dating scene alone, which I most surely would not. It's something I've been considering for a while but have not taken the step mainly because my lifestyle in Korea is just so darn cushy... kind of hard to give up.

[maya.the.bee]

i can't give you any advice. except never never post your email address. have people private message you.

[kdynamic]

Seems to me that most of your complaints really aren't about korea. They are just about dating. Everyone goes through ups and downs. Everyone runs into strings of failed first dates. That's life. I think you'll meet people in Japan who've had the same experience, but also in other countries, and even in their home countries (with different problems of course).

Regarding the English leech thing... it's a fact of life. I think you'll need to get seriously good at the native language of the country you're in before you can avoid that completely. As long as you are looking to find someone who can communicate with you in English, you are going to be limited to people who are interested in studying English. Kind of cuts the playing field down a lot.

I can tell you that RICH and TALL are big selling points here too, so you won't avoid that. But who wants a girl who thinks on such a superficial level? Everyone has to go through a lot to find people who really like them for them and aren't messed up. Don't get discouraged.

But who knows, maybe you do need a change of scenery. Just don't come to Japan only because you've heard it's easier to find a girlfriend. You'll have you share of ups and downs here too, just like everyone else does on the dating scene. Finding a good match is much more about timing, luck, and who you are as a person and where you are in your personal development (IMHO) than what country you are in. People always seem to find The One when they least expect it in the most unlikely place.

Just my two won.

[Like a Rolling Stone]

[Serious_Fun]

[G Cthulhu]

[ironopolis]

I totally second kdynamic's advice above.

Also, as a slightly pedantic aside, could I just point out that 2,150,000won sure ain't 215,000yen any more, even approximately!! The days of the 1 to 10 yen/won exchange rate are long gone, I'm afraid. Maybe you're well aware of the present exchange rate and I notice you did say that you realised you'd save less in Japan.

But do you realise how much less? You're perhaps looking at a starting salary presently equivalent to about 1,850,000won, and that's before rent, tax, insurance etc have been taken off - no free accommodation here. Whilst the cost of living in Korea has gone up more than in Japan over the last few years, it's still overall a fair bit more expensive in Japan. You'll also get no severance payment here.

Fair do's if you're already well aware of all this, but having recently come across a couple of guys who made the switch from Korea to Japan and who have been kicking themselves really hard for not doing their sums a bit better before they changed, I thought I'd mention this. If saving money is important to you (and you did mention it), then weigh things up carefully.
Good luck, whatever.

[Leon30]

Ironopolis and Kdynamic, thanks. I already know the stuff about meeting the right person when you're emotionally and mentally ready and all that, I am thirty years old... I also have had an interest in living in Japan for years, based upon many other things than just meeting girls, thank you very much. I also like the language. Don't mean to sound pissed off though.

The thing is unless you've spent time in Seoul you can have no idea of how bloody snobby, sulky, melancholy, demanding and downright absurd Korean young women can be. Honestly. They literally don't seem to have much in the way of personality (at least it's rare that they show it.) I know women (and men) have the same problems and are not perfect the world over. Everyone experiences Dating problems. Of course, I am experienced and grown up enough to know this.

But seriously (and it's my friends as well as me saying this) Korean women are mostly just plain annoying. They start out in life sweet as anything and then grow into the sulky, pouting, boring people I described above.

And I know women around the world can be very mercenary (marrying for someone who can provide a good home and are tall etc..) but it seems even more so here IMO.

I do have an understanding of Korean culture and I think this is a big way due to how they are raised and treated by their fathers and the expectatons on them from their famillies. And the pressure to marry when under 25. And the feeling that it's not fair that if they've been abroad and witnessed a free -er, more relaxed lifetyle and more equal attitudes to women, thay can return here and feel strangely dissconnected from Korean life, feeling they neither fit into Korea anymore or fully into the West either. That must suck big time and to any of them who feel that I would say, just learn to make it work for you. And the feeling that if they are over a certain age, perhaps western guys are the only option, but really they resent that fact that their chances of a Korean guy their own age who is well groomed, smart and has a good career are much lower... Maybe that's wrong, or maybe that's only part of it.

However, as I mentioned, I had a Japanese girlfriend, have dated another Japanese girl briefly and met others here on vacation in Seoul and they seem to be more fun, open, interesting, humourous and just more dynamic personality wise than Korean women. They also seem to genuinely like men more too. A lot of Korean women expect you to make all the conversation, make all the decisions, they just don't seem to be able to connect with the inner child / sense of fun inside themselves and at the same time expect you to be desperately greatful just to be around them... and they're usualy very boring, to be honest. That too may be due to the way they grow up in a Korean household.

Man, I do realise I sound bitter and twisted there...

I have also had one Korean girlfriend and met some Korean women that do not fit into my above descriptions AT ALL.

Honestly, it just seems recently these are the only types I've been meeting I guess.... And I know language can be a problem, but my above observtions also go for Korean women I've met with perfect English.

Anyone else have any opinions on this...? Experience of both Korean and Japanese women...? Ever noticed that Korean women are more annoying / difficult than other women....

Like I say, I do realise how this sounds, but it really is not just me saying it, lots of guys I meet have the same opinions. Most of them have been to China, Japan and other Asian countries and have said that the women in those countries are just more open, fun and interesting. Yes there may be other problems (hey I'm sure both I and these guys have probs too - LOL - every country and every person has their own individual quirks...) But they all say that they are Definately less SULKY AND POUTY and more laid back...!

I will assert again, that I am not some loser looking only for an Asian girl because it is easier or whatever. That's not me trying to pursuade or convince myself or others as I have had g'friends from various countries (UK, USA, KOREA and JAPAN - okay not that varied I guess...) just that I know how these boards work and that people WILL automatically assume this. But I do want to continue working in this field and in this part of the world, so go figure...

G Cthulhu - You are a patronising, presumptuous juvenile. If you think you are going to slowly ween me into homosexuality through email and then arrange a meeting with me, it's not going to happen. Grow up.

Cheers.

[Bozo Yoroshiku]

[kdynamic]

Leon30, I don't know if you are going to be open to hearing this, but to me, it really sounds like you are culture shocking. I am sorry but ANY generalization that sweeping about ANY nationality about a whole has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

You probably know a hell of lot more about Korea than I do, so I read your post with an open mind. But I have been to korea and I have dated koreans as well as been good friends with them. Sure, they have their own unique culture and attitudes etc etc etc but there is no way you can make such blanket statements about them and not come off like the one who is a little bent is you, not them.

It seems to me like you've had some bad experiences, are getting burnt out and frusterated, and might be starting to feel a little hopeless. I have totally been through those phases in my dating life. Haven't we all? I really think it's all part of the roller coaster ride. But you can't then turn around and pin it on the country your in. That's called projecting. It's a classic aspect of culture shock. You have a bad day, and suddenly "korea sucks" or "Japan sucks." But bad days happen everywhere. And so do bad dates.

It really striking how pretty much everything you said about korean women are the EXACT same complaints I have heard from western guys about Japanese women. To the letter. Childish. Vapid. No personality. Can't think for themselves. Nice at first but slowly morph into pouty life sucking wenches. The whole thing about being pressured to marry before 25. The problems with the ones who go abroad and then try to come back and fit back in to the woman's role. The 'leftovers' past their sell-by date out to snag a western guy. Seriously, all of that is like a carbon copy of what I hear from people bitter about dating Japanese women!!

Of course there are all those problems in Japan, and you don't hear about them all the time for no reason. The experiences the bitter guys have had are real. But at the same time, there are countless amazing wonderful Japanese women too, and countless happy couples. This leads me to believe that while your complaints are valid too, there are probably just as many wonderful korean ladies over in korea.

Korean and Japanese culture really do have a lot of overlap. Some areas are of course distinct, but gender relations and that sort of thing seem to be pretty parallel. I really don't think you are going to avoid the problems you find with korean women in Japan. Just like you said happens with women you date, at first it may seem to all be coming up roses. But then you scratch the surface and start to see the other side of the coin, and you'll realize that Japanese women have all the same issues and more.

But I really do not think it's not a problem with Japanese women. I am sympathetic to the complaints I hear, but really, if you were talking about dating women in the US or Germany or Brazil you might have different complaints, but you'd probably have many of the same complaints and a whole batch of new ones. Dating is just hard, I think. It's NOT about someone's nationality or race.

You said you thought you sounded twisted and bitter, and, honestly, you do. But hey, we all need to let of steam and rant sometimes. I have certainly done my share, and even railed against dating in Japan for this or that reason. You seem like a smart guy and you probably know this, btu when the dust settles, there are problems with every culture, every place, and every city. The best place to start dealing with them is from yourself.

If you want to come to Japan, then come on over. It's a great place to live if this is where you want to be. But leave any illusions you have about Japanese women being better behind because they will soon be shattered. Who knows, maybe the the love of your life is waiting for you here, but if so, it's not because she's Japanese (or whatever nationality) but because she's right for you. She could be anywhere.

[cornishmuppet]

I was sitting outside a ski park cafe once with some friends. There were some people near us who we thought were Japanese, of course. One of the guys handed my friend a biscuit, which he said thank you for and gratefully started to eat. Then this girl piped up, in pretty good English, that they were Korean and that in their culture you had to give something in return for any 'gift' you were given. My friend didn't have anything, and told her so. So she made him give back the half of the biscuit that he hadn't eaten. She was a co w and a half.

Not saying they're all like that or anything, but that sucked.

[Bozo Yoroshiku]

[Like a Rolling Stone]

Be carful if you go out with a japanese girl not to say to her "i moved to japan because I don't like Korean girls" i've dated a few Japanese girls that were actually Korean (and haad gaijin cards ot prove it) One time, on a date, we were talking to a few people who said "we hate Korean people" and my date suddenly looked piss off. then she told me later she is Korean!!!!!!!

[Like a Rolling Stone]