Job Discussion Forums

[DaXiangLouis]

[Henry_Cowell]

Usage standards derive from -- common usage. They have nothing to do with "style."

It is common usage (spoken as well as written) to use a singular verb with the word government in the U.S.

It is common usage (spoken as well as written) to use a plural verb with the word government (and some other collective nouns) in the U.K.

Who knows when this usage difference between American and British English started? The fact remains that it exists and is duly noted in usage manuals. We teach it to students to make them aware of the differences between the two varieties.

[Leon Purvis]

Henry,

What is a 'usage manual'?

I have worked with style manuals but have NEVER seen or worked with a 'usage manual'. Have you ever worked with any style manual? You might not have if you have never written an academic paper or have never published.

Of course, if you didn't graduate from college with a degree in the humanities-- an American college in particular--- you might not have ever heard of the Modern Language Association Book of Style.

You might be interested in knowing that there is a difference between common usage and standard usage and preferred usage.

[Henry_Cowell]

Leon, I'm a professional editor. In that role, I've created style and usage manuals. I have written my own academic books (plus two theses and a dissertation) and articles, and I've edited those of many others.

Most books called "style manual" or "style guide" or "stylebook" cover both style guidelines and usage guidelines. For example, some style guides also contain sections on grammar, usage, and spelling.

Usage: the choice and use of words in various contexts, including grammatical choices among possibilities (e.g., whether to use a singular verb or a plural verb with certain nouns)

Style: the actual treatment of words (including capitalization, hyphenation, punctuation, abbreviation, bold/italic, and so forth), the formatting of text (e.g., lists, bibliographies, tables, illustrations, etc.), and other writing matters

Standard English usage manuals include those by Fowler (British) and by Bernstein, Merriam-Webster, and others (American).

Hope that helps!

[Leon Purvis]

[Henry_Cowell]

Henry is most decidely not in China! He has a real life and career.

[DaXiangLouis]

[Henry_Cowell]

When you start talking about "style manuals" and, in particular, the CMS, then you are talking about editorial style (not the aesthetics of writing). Editorial style is a different kettle of fish entirely!

And we should note that the most famous American writing guide is by Strunk and White (The Elements of Style). It deals first with "usage" (by which the authors mean editorial style and word usage), and then it covers the aesthetics of writing.

The original question in this thread is about collective nouns and the correct verbs to follow them. As shown by various posters, this is most commonly an issue of American vs. British word usage. I have very rarely seen or heard Americans use plural verbs with the noun government. It simply doesn't appear on the radar in the U.S. If it does, you'll have to point me to some sources.

[DaXiangLouis]

[Henry_Cowell]

You can find all sorts of simplistic usage guidelines on the Internet. In actual practice, however, the standard American usage of collective nouns such as government and family is almost exclusively singular in all contexts. Why? It's because the plural verb usually sounds awkward to Americans.

Here are some REAL guidelines for American usage that describe actual choices that writers and speakers make to avoid "awkward" utterances:

The use of a collective noun with a plural verb often produces an awkward sentence. Whenever possible, recast the sentence by inserting a phrase like the members of before the collective noun.

AWKWARD: The committee are not in agreement on the action they should take. (The verb are and the pronoun they are plural to agree with the plural committee.)

BETTER: The members of the committee are not in agreement....

In a number of constructions, the choice of a singular or plural verb often depends on whether you wish to emphasize the group as a unit or as a collection of individuals. However, once the choice has been made, treat the collective noun consistently within the same context. If the resulting sentence sounds awkward, recast it as necessary.

I hope your family is well. (Emphasizes the family as a whole.)
OR: I hope your family are all well. (Add all to emphasize the individuals in the family.)
SMOOTHER: I hope all the members of your family are well.
OR: I hope everyone in your family is well.

from The Gregg Reference Manual

[daodejing]

In the sentence "members of the committee" it's simply a subject-verb agreement issue. Whatever comes before the "of" is the subject, while whatever comes after the "of" is not the subject and therefore has no bearing on the verb agreement. That's kind of a red herring that the manuel brought up and I think it only confuses the issue.

In the US the words government and committee are always followed by a singular verbs as we know, but often when people continue talking they replace those words with plural pronouns such as "they", "them", and "their"--sometimes within the same sentence. It kind of shows you how people think of it as being a plural even though the current usage (or is it style?) demands a singular verb after the word itself.

[Henry_Cowell]

[daodejing]

The issue is whether or not a subject is plural. By totally changing the subject, you completely avoid the issue. Did I misspell "manuel"? People here are so sharp linguistically, you can't get away with anything! Other message boards are on par with caveman scribbling.

[Henry_Cowell]

[DaXiangLouis]