Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

This, perhaps, is aimed more at those in Asia...

A lot of us serving time in foreign cultures have wanted to whine about it at some point or another. I presume Dave's ESL cafe is an appropriate place to do this! (Anyone seen the Korea board recently?)

Interestingly, the complaints are not limited to "it's hot" or "the food sucks" - negative observations about teachers' host countries are often placed at a deeper level.

Roger frequently gives a detailed analysis of the Chinese study ethic, and the culture/psychology that lies behind it. His observations are overwhelmingly negative (at least that's what I infer!) - but I don't detect any negative bias specifically. I don't get the impression he is unhappy there - rather he is aware of what he considers to be shortcomings.

Those on the Korea board happily point out what they see as "flaws" in Korean tradition & culture - as do those in Japan (though to a lesser extent). In spite of all this, it doesn't seem like the teachers actually hate living there. (Well, most of them). If life really was as bad as you might infer from reading some of these posts, the teachers would probably just leave. (As I did).

Since leaving Asia, and then continuously being in contact with Asian students here in London, I have learnt a new appreciation for the west - and "western culture".

By this, I don't mean Britney Spears, McDonalds and MTV (The bizarre form of "western culture" that is most commonly exported) - rather things that are (once again) on a deeper level.

I like being able to joke with my boss, make suggestions at work, chat freely with people of any age (without worrying about status), honesty, integrity, openly being in relationships, freedom of expression, individuality, tolerance, dry humour, good wine, oh man.. the list goes on.

I had taken all these things for granted before I became aware that it is not the same the world over. Whether or not western culture is "better" is subjective - but one thing I have learnt (probably more than anything else) from coming into contact with other cultures, is how much I like mine.

So my question is this...

Has living in a foreign culture increased your awareness, understanding and appreciation of your own?

[guest of Japan]

Yes.

[Shonai Ben]

No

[scot47]

For me it has had the unsettling effect of making it impossible to live again in my own country. I got hooked on being a "stranger in a strange land."

I just cannot hack it back in my native Scotland !

[Glenski]

[J-Pop]

[shmooj]

Seeing the UK from a distance and seeing what other places have to offer close up has certainly shaped my understanding of British culture:

The dog crap on the pavement, dire service in shops, people effing and blinding at their kids in the street, the hyped up news every night from the BBC, seeing the British worship their favourite deity every night as they spend hours watching TV, prices going up like there is no tomorrow, a Tory Labour party, people wearing shoes inside their houses, people sitting on the sofa with their legs under them and their shoes on , unbelievably awful train services, women who run your week's shopping through the till and take your money without once acknowledging that you even exist, hordes of young men and women vomiting and fighting in the high street on a Saturday night, watching the national lottery results every night i.e. seeing whose child has been abducted today on the news, streets held together with discarded chewing gum, cuisine so bland that the most popular British food is a curry, being able to choose from a total of ONE national coach service that turns a three hour journey by car into a nine hour trial, phone boxes that look like they were used for Al Qaeda target practice, having to stop carrying my wallet in my back pocket, drivers giving me the finger on the road, public toilets you are lucky to come out of alive let alone healthy...

Now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy my day in Japan.

[denise]

[enigma]

Yes, China has stirred some appreciation for "western" culture that I didn't know was in me. All that leeroy mentioned rings true. The freedom to see that there are different possible pathways through life, and to think outside the box, is the one i'm missing right now. It has also brought about patriotic feelings that i never expected - Canada is a pretty damn nice country after all.
That said, i don't know that my experience would be the same in other Asian countries. Many of the differences that are making me appreciate my home seem pretty specific to China.

[Wolf]

[cafebleu]

Good question from leeroy - my answer is yes and no. While I certainly have not developed the aversion for my own country that Schmooz suffers from, I find it a little strange to go back home for holidays.

I think it`s because Japan is so non confrontational. It`s nice to go about your daily life without people being in your face, and it`s fantastic not to be watching your wallet and bags like a hawk every minute. The Japanese do not work themselves up about small things openly (don`t confuse lack of open emoting with no feeling - there is a lot of frustration in people here that gets concealed) which makes for a general vibe that is pleasant.

In stores you usually get treated like an important person who is doing the shop the favour of spending your money whereas in many western countries, too many store people act as if they are doing you the favour accepting your money.

However, I think that the non confrontation has a bad side, too. So much bad behaviour passes without anybody trying to stop it or talk about it.

Maybe Schmooz should keep his eyes open more when he is outside because any foreigner living in Japan could name countless examples of really rude, insolent, couldn`t give an f------- behaviour by the Japanese. I have never seen so many bad drivers in my home country. Just because bad Japanese drivers don`t mouth off at you or blow their horn doesn`t mean their insolent way of driving at your when you are walking in accordance with a green light is not showing contempt for others.

The same goes for Japanese people riding bicycles on the walkway. Yes, they`re allowed to but why does that give them leeway to treat pedestrians like trash who just better move out of their way - I`m coming at you so step aside. They don`t say it - but they DO it! Aggressively.

Japanese men sleeping on trains fully stretched out over two or three or more seats would result in my country with people telling that person to wake up and please move over. The Japanese just tolerate it here. The Japanese jump waiting lines like nobody I have seen anywhere else. It`s not a majority of them but it is so blatant and rude yet nobody tells them to wait their turn. They also push you in a way that would earn a push back in my country - and deservedly so.

Japanese people, some of them over 60, living in toilets, subways and parks. Sleeping in blue plastic tents in the coldest of winters. Shocking. In western countries homelessness is also a problem but the welfare systems are far more generous than Japan`s - I have never heard of an old woman who NEEDED to live in a toilet place because nobody would help her. Any number of the homeless are older people who have fled their homes because of yakuza connected debt collectors. In western countries the welfare system would take care of them better.

So I find that side by side with the good vibe in Japan, there exists this indifference to other people. In my country I can be friends with people from so many different backgrounds, we are not worrying about who is older or younger, we are not worrying about knowing our place, we can usually speak what is on our minds. Even with bosses and co workers there is a far easier relationship than anything that could ever exist in Japan.

Plus I am not always having to lie so much in my home country. I understand why people do here in Japan but I think it is another reason why Japan cannot change some things for the better - everybody is so used to denying reality.

I enjoy my job, I think the Japanese generally are decent people, but at the same time I see a real coldness for those people who are not part of a Japanese person`s `in group`. The soto/uchi contrast is an important part of the culture here and accounts in my opinion for some of the contempt the Japanese show to each other when they drive at you, when they take up all that space on public transport, when they feel it is the most important thing in the world to jump ahead of you in a train or bus line and even push you when you are ahead of them, and when it is accepted that the welfare system takes care of a certain type of person and definitely not people fleeing gangsters.

I think on balance there is more consideration for other people in my home country. I don`t think the unwillingness of Japanese people to verbally express things should be confused with better manners as the actions here sometimes really surprise me by the level of contempt for others expressed.

[Roger]

I am sure that even those who most fervently proclaim to embrace their host country's culture are in their hearts westerners.
How can anyone after a few years of immersion in a foreign culture where he is always a foreign body claim to wholeheartedly reject his native culture?
Having said this, I agree in saying that it is possible to accept a foreign culture tel quel, questioning some of its premises and elements but not rejecting it out of hand.
Some might wish to be politically -over-correct in condemning their fellow countrypeople who do not share the same conviction. How long these zealots last is a matter of the individual to work out.
Let me add too that only westerners have the intellectual maturity to make such an educated decision as to move house to an underdeveloped country and a parochial society, where they have to readapt and reintegrate.
Let's be clear about this - without Western amenities and creature comforts made available to each and everyone of us everywhere in the world the decision to immerse ourselves in a foreign culture would not be taken so lightly.
Without the ready availability of aspirin and airline tickets, convertible currencies and cars, TV's and telephones there would hardly be any of us here in East Asia.
After all, teaching English is bringing Western culture to these lands that are craving technological evolution and sociopolitical developments. Spiritual pollination - or some might call it spiritual pollution - begins with the learning of a foreign tongue.
If that's not your mission, then what is?
And, as leeroy succinctly observed, I am by no means anti-Chinese. I observe national whims and characteristics just like anyone else - but from my point of view.
I am not missing Western countries per se; every time I find myself among a large number of Westerners it's the same - too many of them make life too predictable.
To some, too much predictability is tantamount to something being boring.

[denise]

[johnyarrington]

I haven't been to a Western country for 7 years, including America, my own. I think I miss it. "I think" because I wonder if I've gotten too used to not believing anybody about anything without independently checking it, like you need to do in Vietnam, where I've visited frequently, especially when you do big things like buying a house or operating a business. I can push and shove with the best of 'em, like in Saudi Arabia, where I live, because that's the way they do things here. It's a necessary adaptation. They don't wait in line. They just go up to the first person they see and start talking, like nobody else is around. I can drive like any other homicidal, delinquent maniac, like they do here in Saudi, if I want to or if I'm in a hurry.

But I wonder if this is "normal".

I think what I miss most is the idea that, "I COUNT", i.e., I matter, I make a difference. The ability to think the way you want to think, the idea that it's not only my right, but my obligation to give my opinion---about anything, anywhere, at any time. Especially about my government. I don't "owe" anybody, anything. I don't have tribal allegiances, I don't really have family obligations, and all that that entails, like the need to act in certain ways, because I'm a member of my wife's family now,.....etc. And I NEVER worry about, "How will this look to my family/friends/other people?"

"I yam whad I yam".--Popeye

I also miss phones that work--all the time. I miss people who give a straight answer, like, "Yes", instead of "Maybe" or "I don't know" or the classic, "Maybe I don't know." I miss it when people don't say, "6" when I ask them what time they're open, instead of, "What time are you coming?" I miss getting good directions. I miss being independent. Like looking something up in the phone book and going there myself, instead of having to "know someone" who can take me.

I guess I miss a lot of things.

What I've found is that in places where I've been, people can FEEL you're American, as much as know it from your passport. They can sense the freedom to go, and speak, and feel and BE the way you want to be. They react to a freshness, an independence, a "can-do" attitude. When I have to show the mechanic how to insert the shims to make a water pump on my car fit the right way, he practically falls over with astonishment. It isn't difficult.

I'm going to America in November for the first time in 7 years, with my Vietnamese wife who just got an Immigrant visa.

Wish me luck.

[shmooj]