Job Discussion Forums

[tw]

I am teaching thesis-writing to four groups of fourth-year English majors who will probably just download some thesis off the Internet and hand it in to graduate. The text book is well written, though IMO is too boring and way beyond my students' ability to comprehend given their English skill. Furthermore, I don't mean to sound lazy but I am busy enough as it is now with two other weekly lesson plans, so I just don't have the time to read through almost 100 pages of text to find key point to lecture the students on. That is, assuming that the school wants me to finish 12 unites in 7 weeks and assuming my students would actually pay any attention to what I have to say. I have gone through pages of top American and Canadian universities' online thesis-writing materials, and I can't possibly see myself lecturing them on the theories and concepts for more than two weeks. Should I just bite the bullet and go through what the text book covers and forget about my weekends? I am so stressed out right now and even some of my colleagues feel sorry for me.

[China.Pete]

"I am teaching thesis-writing to four groups of fourth-year English majors who will probably just download some thesis off the Internet and hand it in to graduate." --TW

Your consternation, while understandable, is largely a waste of time. Those who can write, will. Those who can't, will plagiarize. Few will apply any of the writing skills you try to teach them anyway (even after you've made them do each component in class), because that's just not something they've been conditioned to do in their academic careers up to now. Just do the best you can. But know what to expect.

[Louise10]

Hi TW,

I�d be inclined to forget about the book too. The students probably won't even read it. I read a number of 4th year theses last semester and really, they were quite poor. They would never have been passed at home. If I had to teach this course, I'd probably just break a thesis down into the basic components...
1) Introduction (review of the literature)
2) Hypothesis
3) Method
4) Results
5) Conclusion

...and tackle each part individually. If they aren't required to do independent research (ours weren't) then the compnents will be fewer. One of the major obstacles, IMHO, is students' lack of academic creativity. I don't mean to generalise unfairly, but in my experience encouraging students to generate an interesting hypothesis is difficult. Maybe an entire class dedicated to generating ideas for a thesis would be useful early on in the semester?

That being said, I would ask them to briefly review the literature on a given topic (you would have to decide the topic) in preparation for their real lit review. This is quite challenging if they've not done it before. A reasonably interesting question often emerges from the review so generating the hypothesis could be the next component, and so on. I also saw that it was difficult for the students to write a decent conclusion...they need a LOT of encouragement to be creative and put an individual spin on what they have found.

Good luck TW and I agree with China Pete when he says we can just do the best we can within the current framework, and it's best to know what to expect so we aren't disappointed. Who knows, you might even get one or two students who write a solid thesis and that would be great outcome. :-)

[Fellow Wanderer]

Tom, try to teach them writing as a process. Reflect on your experience when you wrote your thesis and share this with them

[erinyes]

[Leon Purvis]

[Steppenwolf]

Most tertiary students have to be taught that a sentence begins with a capital letter - that may take a whole lesson for you to teach them! Sad and pathetic but true!

Another lesson they may yet have to grasp is punctuation... commas instead of full stops, how to quote, etc.

How to space their writing is another thing - title separated from text body and centred in the middle of the paper...sounds to them as though it was totally unbelievable.

I guess they could easily transfer their knowhow on how to write such papers from their Chinese writing lessons; you should perhaps pay a little heed to make them aware of the niceties that we want them to respect if they hand in serious essays and dissertations.

[seperley]

[tw]

Thanks for all the replies. The course is actually more on teaching the components of argumentation than on thesis writing. Since I was neither an English major nor have I written a thesis, I am learning as I teach. The students are aware of that too because I'd told them that I didn't think I'd be a suitable person to teach the course, and I think they are quite understanding and supportive. It is, after all, a high-level course even from Western perspective. The only two FT's I know who are suitable to teach this course are both unavailable (one doesn't want to lose his Oral English classes and the other one is leaving due to poor health).

All this time I'd thought EFL teachers would only have to teach SIMPLE stuff, not stuff way over their head. I know some of my colleagues in the other department are teaching subjects that they didn't study after highschool!

[Yu]

So it is nice to know there are others out there stuck teaching research paper writing. I taught this course last year and am teaching it again this your to 4th year English majors at ECNU.
The first thing I did last year was look at some thesis papers of students from previous years. The biggest problem I noticed is that none of the papers followed a standard format (some double spaced, some didnt, some had an abstract others didnt. some had works cited some didnt--- so I considered the necessary components of the thesis paper and prepared a handout that talked about writing in a standardized format.) I also spent a great deal of time talking about avoiding plagiarism.... boring I know, but actually just telling them to avoid it is not so useful, after explaining it to many of them, there were marked improvements over the use of documentation in their papers. (Remember we document to let others know where we got information--- if we cite a stupid person it is better than we let a stupid person's comments pass as our own, and if the students are getting their information from the internet, then there is a lot of stupid people out there.... second, it is a form of academic courtesy, like providing a road map to useful sources, also it is to respect other people's work, and finally to avoid plagiarism.... documenting sources is more than avoiding plagiarism).
So after my first year of teaching the course I helped them with improving their documentation and format of their paper. After reading their papers last year I realized that they sadly lacked creative thought... Actually, my question at the end of last year was how do you teach people to think????? My answer came in the form of "The Art of Thinking" by Ruggario (?) which was are not using as our textbook as well as "The Curious Researcher" by Ballenger. Last year I got a red book, and I hated it, so I found my own texts for this year. I am hoping to teach them how to think.
There were some other problems I noticed last year (which turned in to a list of things I think you could teach them or help with)
1. poor topic selection. I think they picked the first thing that popped in their head and did not consider changing to something more appropriate if they could not find sources, because they did not even bother to check for sources. So I think part of the topic selection process means verifying avaliability of sources at the library.
2. poor library skills. Many of your students will have never set foot in the library and they are unaware of the resources it contains. Do them a huge favor and introduce them to the find an article section of the library homepage. They should be able to access First Search and have access to full text databases like Soc Abs, Wilson Select, Jstor, ERIC, etc.... Even my smartest students from last year did not check with these sources. And they are some of the most useful. Some students cant find a book if given a call number. Some students are not able to select good search terms for locating materials).
3. Poor notetaking skills. Students did not keep track of what material came from which source. Need to be reminded to keep information all together.
4. Poor organization and lack of understanding of proper development of english wriiting. They still write in a Chinese way. They are still translating from Chinese to English.
5. Lack of understanding and following of the writing process. They do not understand a rough draft is supposed to be changed dramatically. I guess the analogy I came up with is that when I am writing it is like I am pregnant and what is going on is constantly changing, and when I get to the final draft I have finally given birth, but I have the option to abort at any time.... Chinese students have given birth when they get an idea. Once they start writing they are already raising their child. and the thought of cutting off the child's arm or stabbing it in the chest is unfathomable to them.
6. They need to learn what a thesaurus is and how to use it.
7. Lack basic systematic way of editing.
8. you can always do some exercises with paraphrasing, summarizing and how to do it so to avoid plagiarism.
9. Talk about how to make an outline.
10. Talk about how to use sources in the paper... How to insert them in the paper to make the content clear. or well supported.
11. Talk about different ways to develop the research paper.

One of the first things I tell my students is that I hate writing.
Also, you mention you fell unqulaified to teach the class as you were neither an english major nor did you write a thesis.... I am in the same boat. But it doesnt matter. As you are teaching at a uni, I assume you have at least a BA which means you have written research papers. That is all you are really teaching them how to do. I think the attitude you have that students are just going to copy from the internet needs to be changed. First, I dont think any of my students did just that by copying the internet for their whole paper (not a single paper was written in a logical enough way), but they do need to learn how to and why they should document sources.

I am very happy teaching this course because I can see students learning something. But it is a lot of work. I get my rewards next semester when they graduate and I have half the semester off (except maybe 1 day of work). I enjoy teaching writing, and this is a challenge for me. Much better than boring oral English (which I hate teaching).

First, Students would be grateful if you would help them know the proper format. Give samples. Consistency is important. I can send you my materials if you PM me with an e-mail address.
Second, Go over the way of doing documentation for books and websources. (Have them practice, take 2 weeks one for online and one for books/journals)
Third, Talk about credibility of sources and different locations sources are avaliable (encyclopedias, magazines, specilized magazines, trade books, scholary books, and academic journals--- the last two being suitable sources for their paper)
Fourth, Talk about how to find these sources. Especially on line research databases.
Fifth, Talk about the reasarch process.

I realize they are calling this a thesis paper. It is not a thesis paper. It is a research paper. Students probably need to write 5-8000 words. They will also appreciate deadlines.

I interested in looking at problems students have with writing their thesis papers, and considering writing an article on it. I am especially intersted in talking to other foreign teachers who are teaching thesis writing to English majors to see if they share the same experiences. Or what their perceptions of the problem of students is.

I also teach my students how to write an English resume. (They are looking for jobs, and appreciate learning how to write a resume).

I have a great article about writing and chinese students. It is copied below"

[poopsicola]

I found Yu's last post very interesting. It demonstrated the thoughts of a person who cares about the quality of her work and it demonstrated too her commitment to "teaching" and to her students. Well done, Yu.

I thought the article that was appended to the post was one of the most useful things I've come across. It deserves the attention of everyone involved with teaching English in China. Thank you, Yu, for the article.

[Yu]

Thanks....
I was expecting comments about how my post was filled with grammar and spelling mistakes and that I was not even qualified to teach writing...