Job Discussion Forums

[elenai12]

hi, guys,
i'm a new one to your forum, though was reading it for a very long time...i'm a teacher with both BA/MA in Tesol and MS in Ed, plan to retire next year and would like to work in Asia (have a secret passion for their herbal medicine)I'll be 55 yaers old next year and got an impression that neither Korean nor chinese uni's/schools want the older /mature people? Correct me if i'm wrong, because i do want to move in that direction and , kind of, wander the world... but i definetely don't want to waste my time looking for something i won't be able to get..
I do have time and, if necessary, can go for some additional certifications...thank you for your time and consideration

[sojourner]

Hi Elenai !

Welcome to Daves !

Yes, unfortunately, age discrimination is pretty much rife in Sth Korea.They appear to prefer FTs no older than 40 - although, occasionally, I do hear stories of people in their 50s/60s finding jobs there. However, you might have a chance, though, because you come from the US ! Apart from ageism, "accentism" is also quite prevalent in ROK. So, don't give up on Sth Korea - you just might have a chance of landing a job, there. But, you should realise that as a Korean newbie, most of jobs open to you would be in the hagwan (ie language school ) sector. Some hagwans might be ok - but, others are definitely not ! Check out Dave's Korea fora. After some time teaching in a hagwan, you might want to consider applying for a job in that country's college/uni sector.These jobs are very much sought after by FTs.

Recently, I learnt that the ROK school education authorities now have a scheme in which FTs are placed in primary and secondary schools. From what I've heard, salaries and conditions compare quite favourably to what you'd find in the hagwan sector. If interested, do a search on the Korea fora - or, post a query.

You also mentioned China. I'm happy to say that ageism in the People's Republic is nowhere as serious as it is in ROK ! A couple of years back, I came across a FT who was aged 70 years ! Just occasionally, a job vacancy might specify a maximum age (eg 50, 55 or 60) - but don't be discouraged by that. Apply in any case, and, with your qualifications, you'd have a very good chance of landing a job.

In my opinion, the best - but, not always the most lucrative ! - jobs are found in the college/uni sector. Most uni jobs involve Oral English, as well as reading and writing; but, often, there are vacancies for teachers of Business English, Western Culture, and Intercultural Communication - far more interesting than run-of-the-mill Oral English ! In my four years in China, I started off with Oral English and Business English, then went into Western Culture and Intercultural Communication; and, in my current position, am now teaching business subjects. Are you willing to teach subjects besides Oral English, Writing, etc ? Did your degree programmes cover courses in business subjects, Eng.Lit., history, philosophy, etc ? If so, the opportunities of picking up a college/uni job are quite good - far better than in ROK !

Unfortunately, the salary levels for FTs in China are not as high as what teachers in Sth Korea receive. With your qualifications, you should get offered 5000 RMB per month, in your first year - but, you should haggle for 6000, probably resulting in a compromise offer of 5500 ! But, compared to the hagwan sector, there are two distinct advantages in working in the college/uni sector in China. Firstly, in the hagwan sector, one is expected to teach for around 30 hours pw. By comparison, in a Chinese uni, the teaching hours will vary between 14 and 18 hours pw - and these "hours" will only be of 45 or 50 minutes duration ! Thus, plenty of time for overtime or moonlighting !

Also, in the Korean hagwan sector you will probably be offered free accommodation - but, it will probably be a flat-sharing situation - consequently,you might end up sharing a flat with some boozy losers ! However, in a typical Chinese uni, you will offered your own ff flat - usually, a bedroom, living room, ensuite, etc. Sometimes, utilities are supplied free.


If interested in working in the college/uni sector, check out Dave's China vacancies. If you can't find anything to your satisfaction, PM me and I'll provide you with the name and email address of my former recruiter, who got me my first two jobs in China. However, once you have been in China for a couple of years, and have learnt the ropes, one usually knows how to network and to apply for jobs under one's own steam. When do you expect to come to this part of the world ? As the next term will commence sometime in February, it might be a good idea to start applying now.

With vacancies in the college/uni sector, there is usually a phone interview - nothing to worry about, I can assure you ! You will also be sent a copy of the contract for perusal. Please pay attention to all of the important clauses. In particular, where an (apparently) generous salary has been offered, check the pertinent clause regarding teaching hours - you might be expected to teach, say, 20 or 22 hours pw, for your "generous" salary; or, there may only be 10 monthly salary payments instead of 12 ! Also, take note of the contractural clauses pertaining to airfare reimbursement and accommodation. A "good" contract will provide for a airfare reimbursement of 8 K with respect to a 1 year appointment, but others might offer only 6 K. (Besides airfare reimbursement, most contracts will also provide for a 2 K "travel allowance). If a contract provides for free accommodation, ascertain about the size of the flat, provision of furniture/utensils, as well as utilities. In any negotiations regarding salary, conditions, etc, ask the FAO to verify any amendments to the contract in an addendum or, in the very least ,in email messages - which you should NEVER delete, should there ever be any subsequent disputes re non-performance.

Check out the two Dave's China fora for further info re teaching in that country.

You might also be interested in enquiring about jobs in HK and Taiwan. Regarding the former, you should definitely enquire about the NET scheme - very lucrative !

Please feel free to PM should you have any other queries.

Good luck !

Peter

[elenai12]

Hi, Peter,
thank you very much for the info, very useful
have a nice day
elena

[tedkarma]

I am 55 tomorrow - and finished (in Feb 2006) three years at a university in Korea. There is some age discrimination - but with your credentials - I would guess that you may be able to land a decent job. With most of the better jobs in Korea though, it may require connections OR showing up in person.

The other instructor at the uni was my age also. There was a lady teaching in the uni hogwan that was 60+.

So, there are good jobs out there. Best to show up in person and demonstrate some personal energy. Also, my opinion would be that an older woman might be in even more demand than a man

[Gordon]

Happy birthday Ted.

[elenai12]

Happy birthday to you, and many more to come
thank you for encouraging, i'm sure i'll find something, but there's one thing that bothers me a litle in may posts they say it's better to be in the country to find a job, but what about visa (being a bery law-obedient creature....) any advise?
Enjoy your birthday cake!
elena

[Gordon]

[JZer]

elenai12, I think that due to the demand in China anyone with a B.A. who wants a job will eventually find one. Anyways you should see if you can get a university job. You may not enjoy working at a language school. Sometimes it is more about money than education. You could also send your resume to Korea universities and fly to Korea in January, so you would be there for an in person interview.

[Craig!]

Hi, i would agree with the others here, in CHina there seems to be less agism as a factor.... The oldest FT at this middle school is 55, and he will be re-invited indefinitely. As long as you pass the physical [where required], and you're not too SCARY looking... seriously, it's all about ''face'' [image] with many Chinese schools.
''You're welcome to China!'' Are you ready for a crazy adventure? Sure you are, you're from New Yawk!

[elenai12]

Hi, guys, thank you for the help. But, I do have a couple of more questions, if you don't mind...
Gordon wrote:"What often happens is: You arrive in a country on a tourist visa. You don't tell them you are looking for work. You look for a job anyways, find one and then with your employer's help, change your tourist visa over to a work visa."
Is it really possible just to jump into the middle of nowhere, without any language skills (just with the place in hotel) and start looking for a job?Just like that? Can you , please, share some experience(mostly emotional) if you went this path?
Well, as far as a SCARY face - no, i don't have one, but i'm much taller and bigger, than chinese girls and i won't go unnoticed the physical is the least of my concerns...but the lack of language is - and i could go for a crash course, but which one to choose?
Some of china unis do have the age boundary at 58 y.o., so it's a music to my ears, because i won't leave until i'm 55 y.o.
And yes, i 'm definitely ready for some kind of adventure ( should have done it earlier, may be), but you change your life when you can do that - when you can afford to leave...
you have a great day and thank you again
elena

[Ariadne]

China is a mighty big place. Sure, there are lots of jobs, and that's why I think it's a better idea to try to find a position before you arrive. You have good credentials. You should be able to find something at a decent university without any problem. Why go through the worry and expense of arriving jobless? You would more than likely conduct your job hunt mostly on-line even if you were in country.

I was 54 when I first came to China. While it's true that many places seem to prefer younger folks, there are also many that welcome more mature teachers. Where I am now the oldest teacher is 67, and there are several others in their 50's and 60's.

Arriving at a school where you already have a job will dramatically reduce the problems you fear about the language issue. They will probably pick you up at the airport and might even assist you with your initial shopping. Most unis provide housing with basic furnishings.

Good luck to you.

.

[elenai12]

hi,
i do agree that the security of having a job offer while being in ny is much better than just coming into the country and beginning to look for a job.. but there's another question/problem: where to find a reputable recruiter? How did you find your first job offer? Can you share some of your experiences? phone#s? e-mail addresses? Or it's too much to ask?
Thank you and have a nice day
elena

[sojourner]

Hi Elena,

I r'd your PM, but have been v.busy over the past few days. Within the next day, or so, I'll be PMing you with details of my recruiter, as well as posting another message to this thread re the procedures in applying for jobs in China, how to minimise risks, etc.

Don't worry ! You'll get a job here !

Again, I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Until then,

Take care,

Peter

[elenai12]

hi,
happy Thanksgiving to all of you, guys!
Peter, if you pm me , i messed it up and did not read, sorry..
I don't worry, because i have a mine of info here, just have to read all of it..
and besides, there's my friend's son studing chinese there, so, at least,
i'll have an interpreter, he even offed me to go to his place, but it's very cold there Shenjan? don't remember...But still thank you for all the help and info, guys, you are great
I was reading the posts and came across some with the behavior problems... from my esl experience in ny public schools, the oriental kids were the best.. so i was really surprised to read the posts... may be that's why i want uni job...
anyway, thank you guys, and happy holidays
elena

[prof]