Job Discussion Forums

[gaijinalways]

These kind of people are everywhere. I met many of them in HK. You would have thought people only talk about making money.

Yes, certain elements of the US do celebrate collecting material wealth too much, but greed lives everywhere. Who you associate with will change your perception and exposure to these kinds of people. I see them in Japan all the time. Sometimes I am afraid I am becoming one of them myself .

[gregoryfromcali]

[JZer]

It is the same in Korea. Why do you think that so many Koreans want to move to the U.S. or Australia while at the same time the American and Australian English teachers here often don't want to return home?

Of course, I can understand. My friend works for a company M-F, 8AM-8PM, and some Saturdays and gets paid less than I do for 20 hours a week.

[Mchristophermsw]

WOW this thread is really growing.

All this talk about materialism...hmm. Well here is my 1/2 cents worth LOL

Every large city and capitol that I have visited seems to suffer from the same social ills--crime, poverty, MATERIALISM!

This is why I prefer meduim to small sized cities. The thing that I loved about Brazil and Trinidad and some of the other Countries in the West Indies was that you could be a 1/2 to an hour away from the action of the hustle and bustle, if you want it. But if you like that slower less impersonal environment, the fruit is ripe for the picking.

There are a lot of variables that contribute to Materialism. One factor is how the multinational companies are so successful at selling image and dreams. The last time I was in Trinidad, you saw RockaWear, Sean John, Baby Phat clothes everywere. The young kids would spend a months salary just to buy a new pair of Jordans! BLING, BLING, BLING

A good friend just bought a HUMMOR and now he is over 50K in debt for 6 years to that car. It makes him happy....On the other hand, I try my best to make sure material things do not define happiness for me.

I enjoy a simpler life, I prefer a simpler life, and I am strategically preparing for a simple but secure life. I have not always thought this way and I have had my share of endulging excessively; dress to impress and roll on a pair of 20's! Oh Gosh, I wish I would have had all that money that I wasted back! But hindsight is 20/20.

For me, it is easier to live overseas and be true to that simpler life and I feel that way for very practical reasons. I can own a house in certian locations from 25 to 50K. Comparably were I live the same quality house would cost anywere from 600K to 1 million dollars.

A mortgage is most peoples largest bill. I refuse to work until I am 60 or 70 and not be able to leave my children a home that is free and clear from any debt. On the other hand with proper planning, some low risk investments--Bingo! Quality of life has just gone up overseas!

This concept is nothing new. People have always looked for better oppertunites in other countries. I think the thing what is new is that more and more Westerners are seeing that with a little hard work and ingenuity, they can live much better outside the USA. And in response to that there is a larger number of Americans that are moving away and or have a second home abroad---but you have to do your research and choose carefully because just like I can buy home for 30K in Trinidad, I could also
spend well over 1 million dollars in certian privilaged areas.

[White_Elephant]

[gaijinalways]

Sounds good for you WE, I wish we could all be so comfortable wherever we live. Not so easy, everyone has attributes that they like, and they may not be ones that are found in your native country.

Me, I am eventually moving back to the US, because I am burning out in Tokyo and my wife doesn't want to live anywhere else in Japan. Europe sounds good, but as an American just can't seem to jump through the right hoops to get there.

[Mchristophermsw]

Gajin,

[JZer]

I do know quite a few Koreans that would like to leave. They are not in the majority but there are definitly Koreans who would like to leave. These people don't want to put up with the 60 plus hour work week. They want to do 9-5 and go home.

[Aramas]

I prefer small cities in which travelling around is not too unpleasant, and yet anonymity is preserved. I can't bear spending hours of every day in traffic, but nor can I accept everyone knowing everyone else's business. It makes life too much like a soap opera.

It's not just materialism that I loathe, it's also conspicuous consumption. In developed countries people can barely leave their houses without handing out wads of cash. Socialising almost invariably involves going somewhere and spending money - after spending money on 'looking the part', and 'arriving in style'. I won't go into the absurdity of going into hock for decades in order to have something shiny that depreciates so rapidly that it can lose up to half of its value on the first day.

How can people not recognise consumerism for what it is? We're really no different from the 'natives' that traded vast tracts of land for a few shiny beads. People sell not only their lives, but also their souls for a few shiny trinkets and a nebulous promise of 'more and better'.

In the developed world it's difficult to get off the consumerist hamster-wheel until you've been ground down for long enough to buy your way out. By that time addiction has set in, and while many people dream of a simpler life, few make that dream a reality. Moving to a developing country can achieve much the same thing without the decades of mindless toil. A lot of people claim that they like their jobs, but how many of them would continue to work if they had unlimited funds? My guess is none. People sneer at earning $500USD a month in a developing countriies, and wax lyrical over their 'generous renumeration packages' in the developed world. They usually neglect to mention their massive debts and the fact that even on a substantial salary they're still living from month to month, and a recession or corporate restructuring could leave them with nothing.

We need food, shelter and friends. Anything else is just a distraction to attempt to fill the void in our seemingly pointless lives. Some people try to fill that void with cars, plasma TV's, money, drugs, religion, career, relationships or cheeseburgers. Others live with one foot in the future and the other in the past, leaving nothing of themselves for the present. I'm of the opinion that it's easier and more practical to lead a satisfying life if the evangelical hysteria of consumerist propaganda is avoided, or at least negated. If, as in the developing world, avarice is not an option, then it's unlikely to become an obsession. If, as in the developing world, conspicuous consumerism is the exception rather than the rule, then societal pressure to aspire to it is removed. Additionally, people in developing countries have not lost the ancient art of making one's own fun, since it's the only kind they can afford, for the most part. Perhaps we have a lot to relearn from them.

[gaijinalways]

Interesting side note related to this discussion on a dislike of materialism and rampant consumerism (a late comer, but definately related).

I was speaking with an entertaining coworker (she also does standup comedy) after work and I mentioned this online discussion. She pointed out to me that in Japan, because a lot of people can't afford a nicer house (if at all, getting that way int he States in some areas) or can buy a car but don't really need it (assuming they live in an area with good public transportation) 'compete' by wearing fashion designer clothes and going out to expensive restaurants and bars. My only thought is which is more pathetic; people wanting to dress like a wealthy celebrity or people wanting to live like one? I suppose buying the clothes is cheaper than the mansion, but both seem sad attempts to bolster low self esteem.

[voodikon]

[Mchristophermsw]

Arimas,

excellent discourse! You have a nice way with words and I agree.



Voodiken,

I won't speak for Arimas but to answer your question from my perspective,
I feel like you in the sense that I need to feel that my life is purposeful and that I give my best at my job and then some. But too many people self-medicate with the things Arimas noted in his post. They loose sight of what is important.

[Aramas]

[sidjameson]

great post Aramas. Word for word what I could have wrote if I wasnt too bone idle to even bother.

Voodikin, we live in an empty godless universe but we also have an uncanny knack of being able to enjoy ourselves in spite of this fact. The trouble is that somewhat paradoxically it seems to take a rather strong resolve to face this 'unbearable lightness of being' and still enjoy the party. My guess is that we are evolutionary hard wired to be driven by anxieties as afterall which human would be most likely to pass on their genes; the one who constantly worried about 'doing enough' (in the mating arena) or the one who could "let it all go" so to speak? I think that to realise and accept that all our desires, whether evolutionary hard wired or sociologically and psychologically induced are more or less "pointless" is a pretty tough ask. Hence all the distractions you see.

Dont sweat the small stuff only worry about the big stuff. It's all small stuff.

Enjoy the distractions. But if it takes ten thousand hours of unenjoyable labour to get a BMW but only 30 minutes of labour to buy a chess set. Work less and learn how to play chess.

[JZer]