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johncanada24
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: Need help with Grammar....Sorry |
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I am tutoring an intermediate High student and his book is really confusing me whoever is good at grammar please help me with this because im starting to look stupid trying to explain. This requires probably one of the smart grammar guys so this will definitely hurt your brain cause I don't know whats right.
Here is the book instructions:
Find and correct the mistakes in the following indirect statements and questions.
example: Tom wanted to know when going to arrive
Answer: Tom wanted to know when we were going to arrive
Please help me with this one !!
Question : " Has anyone found out how much does it cost "
My guess on this answer : " Has anyone found out how much it costs? "
My students answer: : " Has anyone found out how much it cost? "
My student refuses to beleive my answer is correct unless I can explain my answer ( which I can't)
Brain hurt yet ?! Heres another!
ACTIVITY 2
Match the direct speech in 1-8 to sentences a)-h) below. Then complete each sentence using the indirect speach.
1. Could you open your suitcase, please?
2. Don't worry- it'll be fine.
3. Will you please slow down?
4. There're some good shops in the town centre
5. How much does this cost?
6. Hurry up!
7. John, would you give me a hand please?
8. I don't have the time.
F) I wanted to buy a camera, so I asked______________________
The obvious answer is # 5 but the thing is , it doesn't make sense because its almost as if your quoting exactly what she said which makes it correct BUT the instructions cleary state these answers are INDIRECT.
If this is the case my student states that this should be the answer
I wanted to buy a camera so I asked " How much it cost "
My answer was :
I wanted to buy a camera so I asked " How much it costs "
So here are the possible scenarios i cna see here
1. The book made an error with the answer provided ( How much does it cost) seems direct to me....
2. My student is correct assuming the book made an error.
3. I'm correct on what the answer should be assuming the book made an error.
When do you use cost?
When do you use costs?
Does costs mean obtaining prices on multiple objects or can it be used on one object? |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Need help with Grammar....Sorry |
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[quote="johncanada24"]Please help me with this one !!
Question : " Has anyone found out how much does it cost "
My guess on this answer : " Has anyone found out how much it costs? "
My students answer: : " Has anyone found out how much it cost? "
My student refuses to beleive my answer is correct unless I can explain my answer ( which I can't)
Brain hurt yet ?! Heres another!
quote]
Look up subject-verb agreement.
I would help out more but I'm a little busy. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, your student could be correct if his example is in the past tense. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Oh man, I can sense the wolves circling...
As to your 1st question: What the last guy said.
As to question #2:
Read the instructions carefully:
ACTIVITY 2
Match the direct speech in 1-8 to sentences a)-h) below. Then complete each sentence using the indirect speach (sic).
So, F) I wanted to buy a camera, so I asked _______
should be matched with direct speech ( 1-8 ).
Best of luck (to you andyour student)! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Mind if I lend a hand? I hope too many cooks don't spoil the broth.
| Quote: |
Question : " Has anyone found out how much does it cost "
My guess on this answer : " Has anyone found out how much it costs? "
My students answer: : " Has anyone found out how much it cost? "
My student refuses to beleive my answer is correct unless I can explain my answer ( which I can't) |
The original question uses "does cost" as the proposed verb. This is present tense with an auxiliary verb does showing it is present. So, your student's answer uses "it cost", which is a past tense use of the verb, and therefore incorrect. You win on this one.
| Quote: |
Match the direct speech in 1-8 to sentences a)-h) below. Then complete each sentence using the indirect speach.
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The instructions must be read very carefully. Step 1 is to find a match with the words alone that are written in direct speech. Step 2 is to take those direct speech sentences and change them to indirect speech. So, in your example, the real answer is to take "How much does it cost" and change it to read "how much it costs". Your example uses quotation marks, but that is incorrect. Indirect speech doesn't use quotation marks.
Again, your student mistakenly used past tense of cost for some reason. He should study present vs. past tense spellings of this irregular verb, study subject and verb agreement, and learn the use of past tense (I suspect he is confusing the use with past perfect).
As for when one uses cost vs. costs...
This car costs $2000.
Good agreement with singular S and V.
This car cost $2000.
Past tense use of the verb.
These cars cost $2000.
This could either be past tense or present tense and would need more context to understand which, but essentially the spelling of the verb is correct. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Sorry if I am off target here. I've only skimmed this thread.
"This car cost $2000"
1)He said that his car cost $2000
2)He said that his car costs $2000
Doesn't it depend on what the spaker means?
1) How much he paid.
2) What he believes is the value of his car. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with Grammar....Sorry |
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| johncanada24 wrote: |
I am tutoring an intermediate High student and his book is really confusing me whoever is good at grammar please help me with this because im starting to look stupid trying to explain. This requires probably one of the smart grammar guys so this will definitely hurt your brain cause I don't know whats right.
Here is the book instructions:
Find and correct the mistakes in the following indirect statements and questions.
example: Tom wanted to know when going to arrive
Answer: Tom wanted to know when we were going to arrive
Please help me with this one !!
Question : " Has anyone found out how much does it cost "
My guess on this answer : " Has anyone found out how much it costs? "
My students answer: : " Has anyone found out how much it cost? "
My student refuses to beleive my answer is correct unless I can explain my answer ( which I can't)
Brain hurt yet ?! Heres another!
ACTIVITY 2
Match the direct speech in 1-8 to sentences a)-h) below. Then complete each sentence using the indirect speach.
1. Could you open your suitcase, please?
2. Don't worry- it'll be fine.
3. Will you please slow down?
4. There're some good shops in the town centre
5. How much does this cost?
6. Hurry up!
7. John, would you give me a hand please?
8. I don't have the time.
F) I wanted to buy a camera, so I asked______________________
The obvious answer is # 5 but the thing is , it doesn't make sense because its almost as if your quoting exactly what she said which makes it correct BUT the instructions cleary state these answers are INDIRECT.
If this is the case my student states that this should be the answer
I wanted to buy a camera so I asked " How much it cost "
My answer was :
I wanted to buy a camera so I asked " How much it costs "
So here are the possible scenarios i cna see here
1. The book made an error with the answer provided ( How much does it cost) seems direct to me....
2. My student is correct assuming the book made an error.
3. I'm correct on what the answer should be assuming the book made an error.
When do you use cost?
When do you use costs?
Does costs mean obtaining prices on multiple objects or can it be used on one object? |
As for one your answer is correct because a present perfect always has a present tense context since the present perfect by definition references contemporaneous events and/or ones which lead up to a present situation. If the said verb had been a preterite then a tense agreement with 'cost' would have been a thorough possibility...anyway...
Costs refers to the non-abstract; cost can refer to both, more often than not abstract however...gotta go to bed... |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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"
| Quote: |
This car cost [sic] $2000"
1)He said that his car cost $2000
2)He said that his car costs $2000
Doesn't it depend on what the spaker means?
1) How much he paid.
2) What he believes is the value of his car. |
It's called backshifiting and it is normally optional. What it does is increase the distance, whether temporal, emotional or social.
"My car costs $2000".
a) He said it costs $2000. The use of the present tense here suggests that the reporter or his audience still have some interest in the car (possibly they are thinking of buying one).
b) He said it cost $2000Here the reporter is treating the transaction as having taken place in the past and having no relevance to the present.
Note the the choice of whether to backshift or not depends on the attitude of the reporter and/or his audience. The intentions of the original speaker are irrelevant.
Here's another example: two guys in the street pass by a beggar. One of them asks the beggar what the matter is and gets the reply "I'm starving".
There are three ways the guy can report this to his mate.
a) He says he's starving.
b) He said he's starving.
c) He said he was starving.
Which of the three suggests the beggar is unlikely to get any charity? |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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And the most common way to report speech. Can't rememember where I read this.
"He was like starving" |
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johncanada24
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hey What your saying makes sense guys I understand that I really need to brush up on my grammatic terms.
I have a sense of how to use the langauge correctly but have no logical way of explaining it to a Non Native person and i think this is the main problem.
About Secion 2 Good point about Reading the directions carefully my student pointed that out to me and I found out that I wasn't reading the directions carefully!
I now understand when cost and costs are used what was said about this makes sense and I can understand.
Thankyou all for your help this forum rules! I hope that maybe next time I cna hlep someone in need. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| To answer your question Mr Jones I'd go for c) |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| To answer your question Mr Jones I'd go for c) |
No a) |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| To answer your question Mr Jones I'd go for c) |
Correct; the backshifting to the past tense suggests the speaker doesn't consider the persons statement to be relevant to the present.
Only if the intonation was sarcastic. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I read it wrong. I thought you wrote "likely", not "unlikely".
First rule in answering exam questions: RTFQ |
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elenai12
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NEW YORK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Please help me with this one !!
Question : " Has anyone found out how much does it cost "
My guess on this answer : " Has anyone found out how much it costs? "
My students answer: : " Has anyone found out how much it cost? "
My student refuses to beleive my answer is correct unless I can explain my answer ( which I can't)
Your answer is correct, because you have the hint in the question"does" -3d person singular, ending "s" for all the verbs- that would be my explanation(if your student was correct -it would be "did") Actually, Present perfect can be combined with the simple past tense, it's not a mistake, just look for the clues..
#2.
My answer was :
I wanted to buy a camera so I asked " How much it costs "
You put the quatation marks, which made it direct,. My choise would be " I wanted to buy a camera, so i asked John to give me a hand"
hope it helps |
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