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Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Not to defend the Japanese, but they ARE good at taking tests. High school students get 5 major ones per year, plus finals, plus entrance exams, plus mock tests, etc.

Also, I noticed that mathematics had the largest number of questions. Coincidence?

One question, though. Were the tests administered in English or in the students' native language?

Chris21 · Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 366 Location: Japan

Just as a quick aside, I'm stunned that a thread started by Sweetsee has generated this much quality discussion.

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Have you ever considered that a Japanese server might become "unglued" because he/she knows how to solve the problem, but due to possible strict rules and/or management he/she has to go to some trouble to accomodate your request? This type of situation doesn't really show that the server lacks critical thinking skills; it only shows that a server can be frustrated when things don't go by the book. Maybe the server isn't allowed to solve the problem by him/herself and is frustrated by the fact that, due to some rule or another, he/she has to refuse your simple request, thus causing you to think exactly what you have thought about him or her. Nobody wants to feel useless.

This is one of the criteria for crticial thinking, which is to be flexible in finding solutions Cool

. Even if it were aganist the rules in the US, a good server would find a way to make the customer happy. In Japan, often only the manager is happy Rolling Eyes

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SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

Everytime I think the thread is done it just keeps going on.
Some Very Good discussion.

Chris21, some good points.

johanne · Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 189

Glenski, the PISA test is conducted in the student's native language.

Here is PISA's definition of problem solving:

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

The examples given on the PISA website could all be solved with advanced algebra and reading skills (in verbal math problems, you have to be able to convert the words into mathematical equations that you then solve).

So, even though I suppose this does fall under the broad category of critical thinking used by PISA;

Sweetsee · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 2302 Location: ) is everything

I agree. Any suggestions on the rewording GaijinAlways?
Thanks in advance.
Enjoy,
s

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Maybe " Critical thinking skills in Japan; are we as teachers missing something or is it just a lack of training within Japanese culture?" Cool

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

How about "Why don't Japanese think like us??"

Part of the reason that the studies mentioned above were in the realm of science and mathematics is because one of the few areas of knowledge that is somewhat universal and relatively free of a lot of cultural baggage. What we consider "critical thinking" and the values we attribute to it are as unique to our JudeoChristian Western liberal democratic post-modern MacDonalds franchised culture as our 'sense of humour', 'commonsense' or 'general knowledge'.

I think in most cases where someone has come to the conclusion that a group of people lack 'critical thinking' skills I suspect that they had either 1. constucted a problem or proposition that failed to sufficently motivate the group to engage those skills; or 2. the outcomes put forward by the group did not meet his assessment criteria of 'critical thinking'. (essentially he asked the wrong questions and/ or didn't like the answers he got)

For me critical thinking is one of those latent capabilities in all people like creativity, logic, etc that is often utilized and expressed in ways that people with other cultural backgrounds fail to recognise as such.

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

markle wrote:

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

When I checked out this :
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/Items.asp?sub=yes&SectionID=4&CatID=3

it seems that alot of the question types are basic question and answer and sometimes multiple choice
This kind of standardized test seems to have either correct or incorrect answers.
I haven't seen any creative crtical thinking where students would be given limited information and then use that information to make moral or other judgements that would affect people or their lives, or using the information to get around some obstacle, or using the information to offer advice, in situations where there is not necessarily a correct and incorrect answer but students are questioning their own thoughts and way of thinking. But that is how standardized tests go. Anything else will have to be done in classroom situations.

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Good points about the cultural aspect, yet Japan doesn't have a history of formal logic nor any people who have been nominated as teachers. If you wish to connect formal logic usage with the Greeks and Western countries, so be it, but Japan does have and use a form of logic.

As to using more open-ended questions, I think it's a good idea. Take a look at the use of philosophy thread in the general section. I have posted an open-ended type question that I use with my students there.

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

gaijinalways wrote:

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Sorry Vet, I should have told you the page number, me bad Embarassed

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http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=45331&start=90

Page 7 by the way, for any one looking for that example.

Actually I did think of providing the page number earlier, but I thought the thread was a good one, so maybe that 1 hour was your homework Laughing

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