Job Discussion Forums

mandarinstudent · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 91

I'm currently in a messed up visa situation and need some advice.

Right now I am with a company in Changchun with a contract that stipulates that I can leave with 30 days notice. This company teaches everything from 5 year old children to adults. I have decided that teaching small children is not for me, so I went around to the colleges in Changchun to see if they need anyone for the next semester starting in March. A university wants to hire me, so I told my company now that I want to leave in March (70 days notice, twice the time required in the contract). I thought I would be nice and give them extra notice to look for my replacement but the headmaster responded by firing me. They said I am to work until January 19th and then I am fired. The school wants me to return my working/residence permit on that day. The school also said that they won't write me a recommendation letter even though I have had nothing but stellar teacher reviews by our manager. I need this letter to get the job at the University.

I am preparing for the worst situation and assuming that he won't change his mind. I am married to a Chinese person, so I know that I am allowed to get a 1 year tourist visa. If I have to turn in the work permit that is stuck in my passport, how can I convert it? Am I going to have to leave the country to get a tourist visa? If the company takes my visa, how can I leave the country anyway? How does this work?

Let's say that I have to convert my visa to a tourist visa. Are there any universities that have the authority to convert it back to a work visa/permit without a letter of recommendation?

Basically I am asking if there are any people that have gone through this. If your company takes your work/residence permit, what do you do?

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

If you are in possession of your passport (with affixed residence permit) and your little red "foreign experts" certificate, why not contact the university that wants to hire you and see if they can help you out? Maybe they can make a phone call for your benefit or maybe they can find some way to work around this problem. If your contract truly says you can give a 30 day notice and won't be considered in breach, then I would say the 70 day notice is more than reasonable. If you've been coming to work regularly and fullfilling your duties up to this point, then it is understandable when you discover a certain position is not right for you (ie, teaching small children).

I think the problem the school probably has is that, if you are wanting to go to your next job in March and with the upcoming Spring Festival holiday, you may be wanting to live in an apartment they've provided for you throughout February. Is that right or not? If you are leaving them, there is no way they'll want to foot the bill for your accomodations until it is time for you to leave. Again, you might contact the school that has interest in you and see if they'll help you out in that area as well.

Okay, now get ready for the onslaught . . . !!!!

mandarinstudent · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 91

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

Ahem, but isn't firing immediate? If you're fired, doesn't that mean that you don't have any more work to do, that you clean out your desk and get the personal effects out of the office by close of business today? Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out, etc? Then why would you teach another class for them? It's not as though you can trust them to pay you if you do. What colour is your parachute?
Do not, repeat, do not turn your passport over to them under any circumstances. You will never see it again. They never gave you your red book (FEC)? They never intended to, if in fact it was ever issued to you. (Yes, the FEC is issued to the expert, not to the institution. The clowns in the FAO aren't experts, you are, that's why you were hired.)
So you've lost what you've lost, (I've lost worse, as have many Dave's regulars) how do you minimize your losses and get your act back together again?
The letter of reference/recommendation/completion/whatever it is called is indeed a sticking point, as it was meant to be. Fortunately the law is not being uniformly upheld, it may be possible for your potential employer to guanxi its way around the problem. Or maybe not, who can tell until the dirty deed gets done dirt cheap? If it can't, can you manage a quick visa run to Korea, Japan, or HK? You unfortunately seem to be in a positon where you must be up front and honest with your next employer, and in China that is never a good thing, no matter how exemplary a professional you might be. Make what you can of it and maybe they'll pull something out of their hats. If not, then maybe they don't really want you after all. In this muddled kingdom, one sometimes has to cut a lot of bait to catch a very small fish.
In the rest of the world, business is done on a basis of trust and good faith, but not in China. I wish I could say that your employers are the exception, but they're not.

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

Its hard to say what to do because if they're asking you to leave because another person is immediately avialable, I can understand that.

Is their termination earlier than the thirty days indicated in the contract? If so, then they are breaching. You gave them appropriate notice. Illustrate their breach and after they guffaw for awhile, just tell them you did the honorable thing and if they aren't going to help you out, take your salary and leave immediately. Just put the "breach" on their shoulders and let them skirm while you play the "Lets see who can leave earlier gaame.".

BTW: Its a good idea to have an electronic record of everything that they've chosen to terminate your contract early so that they cant come back at you once you are gone and say, hey! this guy left his contract.. He didnt give us any notice! Some schools have been known to lie in such circumstances..

Worst case scenario you have to get two letters of reference and have your new school process invitations then hussle down to HK if they can't process it locally. you shouldnt have any problems unless your present school has better relations with the PSB than the school you are transferring to.. in which case.. prepare some dinner invitations and budget lots of Bai Jo!

Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

I changchun, I was able to change a work unit without a release letter by applying for a foreign workers book..in leu of the FE book....buy the way..which school is this....it sounds like a trick Marry's would play....

Steppenwolf · Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 1769

Your employer is himself keeping with his contractual stipulation of serving you notice 30 days ahead; he can't annul your visa or residents' permit but you have to get it cancelled anyway in order to apply for a new one; cancellations are done by the P.S.B.

You obviously cannot legally work for a new employer without getting a new resident's permit in your passport. A letter of recommendation? Maybe there is miscommunication between the two of you! YOu need a letter of release, stating explicitly that you have been let go without holding any claims against you. They don't have to write a glowing review of your performance - they merely need to confirm you are leaving after having served there from...(date) to ...(date).

On the other hand, ideally you should have at least two years' experience. In parts of China it is illegal for employers to hire you if you don't have that.

Francois · Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 53

This has been said and debated before (100x) The decision to leave a school should not always be communicated to them. I will get flamed for this but a runner is sometimes in order. You should decide yourself, based on the school's general attitude towards you, how you will do it. I know this doesn't help you at this time but this is for future reference and trusting newbies. As far as the release letter go - get a friend to write it - better still write it yourself and get someone with a chop to stamp it. Surely there are someone at the school that likes you? I have done this before when I was in a similar situation. I do not condone this but they leave you no option.

mandarinstudent · Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 91

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

I am 99.99% positive that the OP's current employer is holding his FEC. Without a FEC I doubt anyone can get a RPF.

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

tw: you beat me to it.. I believe that also..

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

Leon Purvis · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:29 am Post subject:

I wonder what the employer's actual words were. I've heard the word 'fired' used when all that was meant that the contract would be terminated. Unfortunately, even 'terminate' in the passive voice, past tense carries baggage.

I suggest that the OP go to the employer and get clarification. Sometimes a small misunderstanding gets out of hand.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

mandarinstudent try to get it in writing from your school that they ended the contract not you. They probably won't write this themselves, but you could write an email to them and have them acknowledge the fact.

Having this in writing could prove helpful in the future.

The actual way things work does vary from province to province so you should probably take heed of the advice given specific to that province. That aside though I would be very surprised if the letter from your boss outlining that he terminated the contract would not be enough to secure you the release as far as getting your documents and being able to take up legal work with the employer.

I agree with tw that the school probably has your documents and I would make a visit to the PSB to see if there is any way that they can help you. Again the letter from the boss about termination may be useful here.

Please let us all know how you go with this.