Job Discussion Forums

[runeman]

I hear very poor reports of the new course books 'EnglishTime' have begun using - dull and drill-focussed, with very little time for student speaking and interaction. Students find them boring and teachers are frustrated.

Can't speak for myself, not having inspected one. Any comment from English Time teachers?

[molly farquharson]

i've been waiting for this. We have been using them for 6 wks and of course the beginning of something is a little bumpy. the books are indeed more focussed but the boring part comes partly from the teachers in some cases the hardest part is the grammar, but we are trying to address it for the short term before we edit the books (next year I hope). However, once the sts get past the grammar they stop complaining so much. I think the books are much better, actually, and will be even better when we have students and teachers who are not used to the old books. The students will have better English, I believe. Like any material, the interaction depends on how the teacher uses it.

Interesting bit-- when i asked some of our teachers for feedback, many of them mutinied, saying it was not their job to develop curriculum. True, it isn't. But it is their job to give feedback in order to make using the materials easier for students and other teachers. On the other hand, we have some teachers who are very conscious of trying to do the best for the students and thus are giving very detailed feedback, which we implement as best as possible. I wish there were more like them.

[thrifty]

[molly farquharson]

yes, as always d__ned if you do, d__ned if you don't.

[Golightly]

what's the name of the coursebook? Is it a UK production? Aussie? Australian? Local?
I remember when Antik started using an American coursebook - dear God in Heaven, it was bloody awful. It was effectively an ESOL book aimed at an audience of Mexican immigrants sitting in the US equivalent of an FE classroom. Patronising, colonialist, racist and full of worthy Mexican stereotypes, printed on the cheapest possible paper with a limited colour range. Good ol' Sinan lost droves of students because of using the wrong product.

[wonka]

Plenty of feedback was has been given but each suggestion was met with an insult. When one teacher expressed his concerns the response was "I don't give a sh--". The "mutiny" on behalf of the teachers was not solely because of the new system but also because of the lack of respect they were shown at the meetings.

[misterkodak]

I never thought I'd see the day where I'd witness the words "respect" and "english time" together in one post.

[dmb]

[misterkodak]

I'm not going to get into it with you. Look at the date I joined. Just because I don't post here doesn't mean I haven't been around for quite awhile. The date I joined has nothing to do with the length of time I've been involved in ESL or in Turkey... which is much longer than that. Since I know a great deal about ET firsthand and otherwise I feel that I am allowed to comment whenever I feel necessary.

[Shaytess]

The books were written "in house" by ET head teachers, on top of their normal work load. And I can also verify from firsthand experience that whatever "mutiny" occurred at ET, in particular at the Taksim branch, was in reaction to poor management and lack of respect towards the teachers. The teachers have been told that they will be editing the books as "a professional courtesy" (ie unpaid work) but most of their comments have been met with hostility by management.
I have seen the books and can attest that they are truly, truly terrible. It was decided to teach skills in blocks rather than in an integrated fashion, i.e. two straight weeks of grammar, two straight weeks of reading... I am curious as to whether this is based on any approach or whether it was merely a financial decision, as new students can be enrolled every 2 weeks into classes instead of having to wait for a new class to open up. The books have examples that in some cases are completely offensive, about rapists, murderers, and my favorite, "Pete the Pervert."
Students are the ones who have really been "mutiny-ing" and deservedly so. They have refused to take exams, written letter of complaint signed by the whole class, etc. ET had better get the situation under control, because it is really REALLY a mess.

[dmb]

[molly farquharson]

I want to give some history of these books. They were written by a team of 30 ET teachers. We looked at the curriculum, tweaked it a bit, and tried very hard to choose interesting topics, write clear and useful explanations, and give plenty of practice. We added lots of pictures to help interest and comprehension. We wrote tests, teacher guides, and pacing schedules. We thought about the students and the teachers as we did all this. So, the moral of this little story is that when you diss the books, you are dissing all the teachers who worked on it, and they do not deserve it. A lot of people here like to diss ET, which is their privilege. To me, it is like people refusing to go to McDonalds or Starbucks because they are big. Olsun.

As for that meeting, that is not the mutiny I was talking about. I admit to having a salty tongue, which would probably be beeped all over the place here. That was a difficult meeting, as the whole system was new and had just started abruptly. Everyone was pinging, to be expected when something new starts on a big scale. For example, I was in what used to be Koc Bank yesterday and asked the woman how their transition (Koc Yapi Kredi) was going, and she said it was difficult at first but was getting a lot better. That is how I see our new system. It was a difficult birth and truthfully I carry a lot of the burden of it on my shoulders, though helped greatly by the head teachers. This is an opportunity for a lot of people to find out what kind of teachers they are, as this is totally new material, and no one can go in on automatic. Some teachers have asked, and some have demanded, that we make changes that we cannot make. However, we have already made a lot of changes to help and accommodate the teachers, and there of course are a lot more to make. It is probably not surprising that many people spend a lot of energy complaining and very few have given useful, usable feedback on the materials. Some have said it is not their job to do curriculum development, which is true. But being responsible for helping make something new a success is a professional responsibility, no matter what the profession is

End of rant.

[molly farquharson]

The teachers were never told they would be editing the books. They were asked to note mistakes-- how hard is it to circle typos and photocopy the page? That is not editing, it is helping.

As to the block system, it was a pedagogical decision. We are convinced that once the system is settled and more students have actually gone through the block system, they will be better at using English. if they are better at English, it is better for the school.

Saying that most comments were met with hostility is not accurate. i admit to getting hot under the collar about some demands because some teachers have little basis (education or experience) to base them on. One teacher in particular has been very painstaking in his attention to the tests, for example, and that helps everyone at all the branches. he actually read the tests, instead of just sitting reading the paper, and caught some typos and ambiguities, which were easily fixed.

Just because something is "in house" does not make it bad; see my previous post.

[Henry_Cowell]

I want to hear more about the pedagogical use of rapists, murderers and perverts. Which block are they in?

[Golightly]

Sorry, Molly, but I have to stick my oar in on this one. Please don't misconstrue it as an attack on yourself or your staff, or their professionalism - as teachers. What I would query is the ability of an in-house team of teachers and instructors to fulfill the role of educational publishers, a very different role, no matter that every teacher I know believes they could write better than anything on the market. You say that 30 people were involved - I take it you acted as commissioning editor? If not, who? What, precisely, was your target market? If only ET students, why? What makes them different?