Job Discussion Forums

[james_tesol]

At the risk of being flamed for asking a vague and general question......

What are the main differences between the two countries from the perspective of an ESL teacher? Obviously they are both big countries with differences depending on which part of the country you live. However, if one was to summarise the main differences, what would they be?

[rogan]

One is Russia - the other isn't.

[james_tesol]

That is absolutely great! Thanks so much for your help! You are an intellectual genius! Bang kon ngor mak mak loei!

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I spent two years teaching in Ukraine, and am currently teaching in Russia, so I might have the info you're looking for. Some general comparisons (of L'viv, Ukraine and Vladivostok, Russia specifically):
1) Money. The potential for making more money, at the moment, is in Russia. Simply put, there are more rich people who will pay you for private lessons. Salaries are higher in Russia, too. Finding private gigs in companies is easier in Russia. I did find private students in Ukraine, though, so it is possible.
2) Cost of living. The cost of living is significantly lower in Ukraine. Rent is cheaper, and so are staple goods. This is changing, however, as Ukraine tries to inch closer to Europe. I would say Ukraine is roughly 25% cheaper (to give a general idea) at the moment.
3) Competition. Both countries (especially out of the capitals) are in desperate need for native speakers. I would call this a draw.
4) Culture. The cultures of the two countries are very similar. This is due to their shared cultural past and the Soviet "effect". I'd say Russia is more "developed" at the moment, as far as cities go.
5) Women (if this interests you). Gorgeous in both places, you really can't lose as far as aesthetics. I'd say that Ukrainian women, as a whole, are less "materialistic" than Russian women. I found far less of the "take me to the disco and let me spend all your money" attitude in Ukraine than here in Russia. Of course, this is hugely subjective to one's perspective and experiences.
6) Other. These two places are quite similar. There are some other intangibles such as the government. I found the Ukrainian government to be less intrusive and intimidating (I'm talking about things like registration, militisia, other bureaucratic agencies/hurdles which I'm filing under "government"). There're many more reports of racism here in Russia than I found in Ukraine. In the same vein, Ukrainians seem to be less ethnocentric.
There's also the question of stability. Um, if you want stability, I'd suggest you seek out work in different areas of the world!
I hope these help. I'm not trying to get into a shouting match here with anyone about my views. They are opinions, pure and simple.

[canucktechie]

Competition. Both countries (especially out of the capitals) are in desperate need for native speakers. I would call this a draw

I strongly disagree. The job market in Ukraine stinks. If you want evidence, just look at the job postings on this board and on tefl.com. Ukraine postings are rare, but there are constantly postings from Russia. Full time positions in Ukraine are scarce and hard to get - I know this from personal experience.

I think pretty much everything else you wrote is just about spot on. Note that the big, big difference between Moscow and everywhere else is housing - very expensive and hard to find. I will disagree a bit about shopping, though - I do not find Kiev cheaper than Moscow in that respect. Services are cheaper though.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Agreed. I should've worded it differently.
There's no doubt that native English speakers are desperately needed in Ukraine and Russia. The trouble in Ukraine, however, is that there aren't enough schools, and therefore opportunities are more limited.
I believe this will change, though, as Ukraine inches (millimeters?) its way towards Europe...
Thinking about it, Ukraine is a good place to try and open a school. Interest?

[canucktechie]

[maruss]

I fully agree with Canucktechie on at least two points:
1)There is a dire problem with finding accomodation at affordable prices in Moscow and this is definitely something to be warned about for anyone thinking of going there to work!If anything, the situation is getting worse due to several factors such as the shortage caused by corrupt bureaucrats and executives from the oil and gas industries investing in property.This has driven up prices to ridiculous levels,making vast majority of other people who come to the city from other regions to work forced to rent as they cannot even dream of buying!Everyone keeps saying the bubble has to burst, but of course the question is when???
On the other hand,if you have sorted out somewhere to stay you can find well paid teaching work in Moscow as there are plenty of vacancies!
2)The vast majority of people in Ukraine are still hard-up and even desperate for money in many regions outside the capital and proof of that surrounds me everyday here in Cyprus when I come across them working in all kinds of menial and usually low- paid jobs for less than half what a local person would accept!