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guest of Japan



Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ambiguity that I infer from Stephens post is:

"He said he went to the pub a lot." Possibly, a lot modifies said.

"He said he had gone to the pub a lot." A lot seems more closely connected with going to the pub. Also using had gone implies that he no longer goes there.
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Hogbear



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 42
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting, guest of Japan. I see what you mean.

Of course, in written English, the solution would be to put the modifier a lot closer to said: "He said many times that he went to the pub."

In speech, voice inflection can help determine what gets modified, especially with too, either, and also. Compare:

He went to the bar too.
He went to the bar too.

Inflection determines what too modifies, since it often sounds stilted to stick it right next to the word. ("He too went to the bar.")
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"He said he went to the pub a lot in England" is the reported speech for
"I go to the pub a lot in England" and "I went to the pub a lot in England." Without context you would need to say "He said he had gone to the pub a lot in England" to resolve the ambiguity. However, as we rarely do speak without context, then the ambiguity is a rare occurrence.
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Hogbear



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 42
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Words into Type disagrees with me on sequence of tenses. I think if we ignored the sequence-of-tenses rule in the case we're talking about, it would clear up the ambiguity. But I doubt I'd find a major style guide that agrees with me. (Bill Walsh's Lapsing into a Comma is the only guide I know of that does agree with me.)

Stephen, "He said he went to the pub a lot in England" can imply both "I go to the pub a lot in England" and "I went to the pub a lot in England," as you've said. But if "He said he goes to the pub a lot" were allowed, then "He said he went to the pub a lot in England" could be the reported speech for only "I went to the pub a lot in England."

Right?

"He said he goes to the pub a lot" is the reported speech for "I go to the pub a lot."
"He said he went to the pub a lot" is the reported speech for "I went to the pub a lot."
"He said he had gone to the pub a lot" is the reported speech for "I went to to the pub a lot, but no longer do," or "I used to go to the pub a lot." (Guest of Japan pointed this one out.)
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